“Iran Has Certainly Also Gained Another Credibility,” Underlines Portugal’s Ambassador

Following the dynamic atmosphere Iran’s foreign policies have experienced in President Rouhani’s terms over the past few months, the achievements in the nuclear talks have marked a new chapter in the relations of Iran with other countries, esp. Europe. Among all, Portugal took the initial steps and sent one of the first and most well-structured delegations to Iran for the first time. To obtain a more comprehensive look at the existing circumstances, we sought to know more of Mr. Mario Damas Nunes’s point of view toward the upcoming bilateral political and economic developments between the two countries.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with

Mr. Mario Damas Nunes, Portugal’s Ambassador in Iran

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

 Well, last year was the last time we had an interview with you. Since then, what have been your most important meetings and activities about?

That is a good question, because I’ve been recently to Qazvin for a specific issue which I would like to develop. In fact there’s a program with Portuguese professors in Qazvin working with students on post-graduation level. Every month, one professor or teacher will come to Qazvin and the main issue is urban planning.

 But let’s start from the beginning. I have to tell you that 2014 was the best year in the relations between Portugal and Iran. Everything started in May with political consultations, and we are going to have another round of political consultations hopefully after summer in Tehran. During 2014, we had many things. We went into several agreements. There is going on one airline agreement between Iran and Portugal. That agreement is now under study at the President’s legal department under the supervision of the ministry of foreign affairs, in order to clarify some minor aspects.  Personally, I would like to have it completely done and signed before the end of the year.

After the political consultations that has been mentioned, we had in October the Minister of Culture in  Iran in an official visit in order to establish good bilateral bases that eventually ended up in the signing, during an official visit in January, by the Portuguese MFA and the Iranian counterpart. As you know, that cultural agreement covers many sectors. It goes from culture, itself, to universities and exchange of scholars and students, youth, sports and tourism. If you allow me, I would leave tourism for the end, because I want to concentrate on this particular sector, but that’s the last part of our interview, in which I would like to present you the possibilities that exist between the two countries. After that, we also signed between the Chamber of Commerce of Iran and the Portuguese AICEP (an agency that supports the Portuguese businessmen when they go outside of the country to export their products, and specifically deals with the capture of foreign investment). It was signed by the vice president of AICEP and Mr. Shafeie (then chair of Iran’s Chamber of Commerce). That MoU will provide an important tool for the coming economic and trade relations between the two countries. Therefore the only agreement which is not signed yet is the airline agreement, because, as I said, it is still under appreciation of some legal points.

When is the direct flight between Tehran and Lisbon launched?

There are two companies involved in this operation: Iranair and EuroAtlantic. We are still waiting for minor details, but I believe this year, we can start the operation.

Isn’t there a deadline for that?

Not yet. But soon.

But going on with our last year’s events, we should underline that Foreign Minister Zarif went to Lisbon in April in retribution to  the Portuguese Minister´s visit to Tehran.

Coming back to the Portuguese Minister´s visit one should underline that a commercial delegation, came also along, and we had two very profitable working meetings, one in Isfahan and one in Tehran in the Chamber of Commerce.

Which aspects of industry did the delegation mostly cover?

Several areas, from agriculture to telecommunications, tourism, electrical appliances and plenty of different factors. And it was really the first time a well-structured delegation came to Iran. So that was the kick-off for more well-structured bilateral relations that we have to implement after the summer. When the businessmen met, they organized themselves and spoke about the possibilities, and now, we are expecting that those aspects in several sectors can come to a positive conclusion, be it in Portugal or be it in Tehran. And this is extremely important because the level of trade between Portugal and Iran is very, very low. This year and 2016, we have to increase a lot the exchanges in trade, between Portugal and Iran. So that is what it is.

What has the Portuguese Government done to attract foreign investors, including Iranian merchants?

Portugal is totally open to any kind of investment. Right now, we have a very interesting program called “Visa Golden Program”. This program allows any foreigner to go to Portugal and invest 500 thousand euros in any sector. You can go to the banking system, agriculture, recuperate any kind of bankrupt company, have joint ventures or invest directly in real estate. Right now, we don’t have many Iranian applicants. That’s why in this interview, I would like you to underline this program for everybody to read it. What is the advantage of it? You buy property, for instance, or whatever in the entire country, in any place, and you have to spend some time early in Portugal and you will get what we call “Visa Golden Card”. This Visa Golden Card gives you the liberty to visit all Schengen countries without any visas to ask and you are completely free to circulate in all those member countries.

What parameters should an individual possess to be granted the Visa Golden Card?

Anyone can have that. As long as the person goes to Portugal and invests 500 thousand euros in any area, he is eligible. As far as I know and according to the information we have here, there is probably some 15-20 Iranians who are already dealing with this. There are lawyers in Iran and Portugal studying those applications. So after five to ten years, you can have a residence card. And then after some years, if the person stays and goes to Portugal on a regular basis, after a certain time, you can even apply for a permanent resident card and eventually to get the nationality, which means having a Portuguese passport. What most people are doing is that they are buying these properties for their children. Why? Because probably they are not going very often to Portugal and they want to have something to leave to their children.

Interestingly, Portugal can move past the austerity program more easily by practicing these policies.

If we go into Portugal’s economic situation, as you know, we finished our program of assistance last year, in 2014, run by the European Central Bank, the IMF and the European Commission.  A program of assistance, like Greece, Ireland and Cyprus. In order not to get a default, we had to call upon these institutions to get enough financial means for banking assistance and for the continuation of the recovery from the economic recession we were going through. And we did   rather well, with much resilience from the Portuguese people, many sacrifices had to be done. We are doing so well that right now, before the time limit, we are already paying IMF parts of the loan.

The PM underlined that the budget of the country should be cut down on.

There is no cut-down. He cannot cut down on it, by the way, because the budget was approved in October and we have an election coming in October. So the coming government after the October election will have another budget and we will see what kind of budget we can have by then. Because between now and October, a lot of economic things can happen. We have a goal which is to bring our financial deficit under 3%. Unemployment came down to 12%.

Is it possible that just like Greece, the new Portuguese government that is bound to take the office would take similar measures and bring modifications in priorities and policies?

Greece’s situation is different from that of Portugal. Greece is under the 3^rd program of assistance, but we had one. Greece is under a program and a lot of stress not only for financial matters, but also the monetary liquidity; in fact we never got to that point. Having said this, we are convinced that Greece will pull out of this program. I have a feeling that Greece will make it, and we want it to make it. Greece is a part of the EU and it would be a disaster for Greece to leave the EU, but if Greece, for some dramatic reason, has to leave, it could bring to other countries problems that we are not expecting to face, because such a situation was never on the table, and therefore it would create a totally new order. And I am sure no EU country is prepared to accept that.

Such a mishap can definitely intensify the crisis.

It could intensify the crisis if we don’t find a real solid solution for Greece which we all expect we can achieve. Discussions are being run until the end of the month. I’m almost positive that we, the EU as such and the Euro group, are certainly doing the best to help Greece to come out of the crisis and stay in the Eurozone. When we say that we are willing and the European companies want to keep Greece in the EU, then that means it is important. But there is one aspect that I must underline. Greece like all other countries must follow the rules. Cyprus followed the rules; Ireland followed the rules. This means that we try to do everything in our power, the 19 countries, to help Greece in this particular situation; we were in a difficult situation, naturally in a lesser degree, and we overcame it. Why? Because we played by the rules although suffering very much from a strict program of austerity. We have to say that this is difficult but not impossible. If we, Portugal, Ireland and Cyprus, managed to get out of the situation and try now a new series of economic developments, imports and exports and so on, and also lowering the financial deficits, I think Greece can do it, too.

Moreover, I like to talk about the political and economic ties between Iran and Portugal. I would like to inquire what effects the nuclear agreement of Vienna can have on the two countries’ ties.

There is no direct impact from the nuclear issue, itself. There is, on the other side, the problem of sanctions that really affected the possibilities of Portuguese companies exporting their products in a normal and free way to Iran. But this is not specific to Portugal, has happened to everyone. That is why I want to bring a sector which is not under sanctions and for us, in which we have excellent knowhow: tourism. I must emphasize that we have to strongly develop bilateral relations in tourism.

In this regard, on his trip to Iran, the Portuguese Minister of Culture discussed the extension of cultural capacities. And 2015 was decided for Iran to hold a cultural week in Portugal and 2016 for Portugal to hold one in Iran. Do you consider these events as chances to increase the ties in tourism?

Definitely, it is one of the best ways to increase the bilateral relations. So I will be working after the summer with the Iranian ambassador in Lisbon and we will exchange views to find the right format in which the event can be held. It is not important if it is done first in Iran or Portugal. I just want to start something and have it done, here or there, with the ambassador and of course, the Iranian Minister of Culture, Ali Janati with whom we talked long time about these issues. And I’m sure we can do very good things, and if you want to show your country, there is no better way than the cultural way.

So we can stay hopeful that Portuguese filmmakers, musicians and artists in general can have a visit to Iran.

We will try our ultimate best to have these kinds of exchanges, bringing musicians, painters, and I’m working on an event now to bring a pianist and a Portuguese painter in September. I’m working on it. So this is the plan for this moment and we will develop it with the ambassador into something more structured. This will not be a big event as it is held at my personal residence. But it is a continuation of what we had done in a recent past.  Afterwards, we will exchange cultural weeks here and there.

On behalf of those who read our interview, I would like to thank you for all the energy and effort you are putting into the cultural activities. And it was your support that brought the fado singer, Cristina Branco here. That is indicative of your strong steps in this area. What you are practicing now can hugely contribute to the cultural developments between the two countries.

We do know that. Portugal is a cultivated country. We know much more than other countries about the foreign histories of nations, because we studied them and we follow closely what is happening in other parts of the world. Apart from what one learns at school and Universities.

Apart from being cultivated, we are a people of many interests, which means that being a small country, we very much like to know what other countries have been like in their past and present. On the other side, there is a big work to do which I’m trying to do, and that is to show to Iranian people what Portugal really is. Because people in Iran do not know Portugal, what it is, how we are, what discoveries we have had, etc. All they might know is the Portugal of 16^th and 17^th century, and we are much more than that. It is a modern European civilized country.

Historically speaking, Iranian people do remember Portugal’s military presence in the south of Iran.

I know. That’s old history. History cannot be rewritten. It is what it was. We should make a new history by doing something in Hormozgan province at least about one of those fortresses to preserve it. And this is a point which we are still studying and that focuses on recovering that fortress. Because after all these years, that fortress is not only Iranian or Portuguese, but belongs to mankind and that is cultural heritage for the entire humanity; for people to know we were here in those years, in the 16^th century. What would you want it to be? It cannot change. We didn’t attack the country; we did not occupy it; we did not make a war. We were just defending the passage of Hormoz. Why? Because of the boats and the goods we were buying and selling. So this was not whatsoever an occupation. We never entered a war against the country. It was a very peaceful presence of Portugal, we didn’t stay for long, and what we did mainly was to preserve that maritime line that went through the Persian Gulf.

Many view sport as a great means to help diplomacy. What are your plans in this area considering the fact that the head coach of Iran’s soccer team is a Portuguese? Even one of the most popular coaches in our football league, Mr. Oliveira is Portuguese. How do you want to make the most of the capacities in the realm of sport to bring the two countries closer together?

This is one issue that I have to address, and I’m waiting for a meeting with the Minister of Sports on this. Because it goes straight into the cultural agreement. It is a part of the cultural agreement. It’s the development of the bilateral relations in the field of all sports. Football is probably the most popular, but we have so many sectors like hockey, volleyball, basketball, swimming and all other kinds of sport. So the idea is to have a joint effort in bringing, for instance, or taking to Portugal summer camps for the young in order to practice sports. It can be any of the sports above mentioned. But the idea is this has to be between two countries. That’s why, as I mentioned, I would like to speak to the Minister of Sports in order to know which institutions are open in Iran for our institutions to be in touch with. Because we, as ambassadors, play a role of a go-between. We are bridges between the two countries. But at the end of the day, it is these institutions that have to get together, they cannot rely on the presence of an ambassador here, or an ambassador in Lisbon. That is not the point. The point is that once things are going on, then the schools and clubs get in touch with each other to exchange these summer camps or other things during holidays. It is very important to attract the youth to these kinds of things. Because once you show them, they go for a month or some time to stay somewhere to study or play. Of course, as you know football is the most popular, in Iran and in Portugal. But the cooperation does not stop here.

Do you have any friendly contact with Iran’s national football team head coach, Carlos Queiroz?

Of course, very close. I also know Tony Oliveira personally very well, the coach of Tractor Sazi FC. But with Queiroz, because he is in Tehran, it is easier to meet and we get together very often.

Do you have any special memory from Mr. Queiroz or other people you met? Because memories are only memories on the surface, but deep down, they send out all the necessary communicational signals.

I have many relations here, Iranian or else. But it is very difficult to say which moments were more memorable, because in this embassy, I deal with most of the things, so many things come to me, perhaps everything comes to me. So we are very busy always dealing with almost everything. But I still have time to go to concerts, to Vahdat Hall, which I’m going to today, by the way. I’m going to see the 9^th symphony of Beethoven, and I try to have time for these kinds of things, because the rest is difficult. But the most important of them…with Mr. Queiroz…because he is Portuguese; he is a very close friend, highly competent. I don’t have anything to do with the problems of the federation. This is not my business. I will not say a word on that, because it’s not my issue. My issue is to get along with everybody. I met Mr. Kafashian, we spoke, excellent person. Nothing to say. He is nice, friendly and understanding person. I like to be with him, and in the coming days, I will meet him again certainly. But this is to say that we don’t interfere in those matters. We have nothing to do with that. If there are problems, it’s for them to solve, not for me to interfere. We never interfere in Iranian internal affairs.

You have been on provincial trips inside Iran. One of them was to Qazvin which has been widely received. Would you tell us more about that?

Qazvin is a case study. It is a very interesting case. It started with a private enterprise with a former professor of one university. He came to Iran and met some people from Qazvin, organized himself with the local Mayor, got in touch with several institutions and started to come here regularly since 2 years ago. He met also with the governor and they organized themselves in a way…you know Qazvin is a student city; there is Azad University and the international university, and there was a MoU with a Portuguese university called “Moderna” to exchange students in order to learn Farsi or Portuguese. This is one thing. So this Portuguese enterprise came in touch with the municipality of Qazvin and they organized regular courses in order to structure a rather new city like Qazvin. Because Qazvin is under construction, and many things are new. There are beautiful things inside the city, for example, I saw the most beautiful “Caravansara”, which is an excellent place. So this Portuguese company brings professors from several areas, then they have students who pay their fees for the course, which is a 2-year course, and at the end, they will have a recognized diploma. There are different students, but not young. They are mostly postgraduates.

Are the courses taught in Farsi?

No, it is English.

Would you please elaborate on the nature of this program?

If you get in touch with the mayor of Qazvin, he will tell you all the details. The main issue is we bring professors in several fields such as transport, tourism, roads, water distribution and so on. These Portuguese professors have a very high level with a huge capacity of transmitting these kind of knowledge. They will teach those students in order for them to be able to follow up what Qazvin will be in the future. And being a city with 2 universities, it has a good opportunities for bringing these students into the programs, that will give them the necessary professional tools for the future.

What is your take on the results and achievements of the nuclear talks?

As far as the results of the nuclear agreement are concerned and according to the latest developments I remained extremely confident on a positive outcome.

The final result is a favorable one for both parts, in a formula that we can quote President Rouhani when he insisted on a win-win solution.

I believe that was achieved and the Islamic Republic of Iran can now concentrate in the recovery of its economy and the well-being of its people. Although this will not happen overnight, I trust nevertheless that we are really in the right path.

On the other side and in the international scene Iran has certainly also gained another credibility. I see a promising future for Iran and also for the region as a whole.