“Relations between Iran and Uganda at an Excellent Level,” Approves Uganda’s Ambassador

An East-African country, Uganda has considerably grown in the field of agricultural products. The growth has been so noticeable that the country has made its way to export various commodities such as coffee, fish, tea, cotton, and flower to Europe. The free investment laws are all the same in Uganda and four other countries – Uganda, Burundi, Kenya, Tanzania, and Rwanda – famous as East African Community, which means Iran can pursue its commercial activities without paying any tax in Burundi, Kenya, Tanzania and Congo, and it is under such circumstances where Uganda can create a favorable market for Iranian goods. To delve deeper into the economic and cultural potentials between the two countries, we held an interview with Uganda’s Great Ambassador in Iran, Mr. Mohammad Ahmed Kisuule.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with Uganda’s Great Ambassador in Iran, Mohammad Ahmed Kisuule

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

Your Excellency are now the Accredited Ambassador of 10 countries. Where did such a glorious diplomatic climax begin to grow?

To be appointed Ambassador is not so easy of an accomplishment, at all. In 1973, I went to Saudi Arabia in order to pursue my studies, and in 1980, graduated in Islamic Law from the Islamic University of Mecca. In the meantime, I assumed the religion managerial position in Kampala, and became the lecturer of the Islamic Section of Makerere University, which is the most reputable university in the east of Africa. During my 11-year-old stint at Makerere University, I proved myself capable to everyone of finely accomplishing every responsibility assigned to me.

Nearly 84% of Uganda’s population are Christian; was it not tough for you to educate in Islamic studies in Saudi Arabia?

Such issue appears so trivial and unworthy of note, and when I was the head of the Islamic Section of the university, a large number of projects, including the Health Center, invested in by Saudi Arabia were completed by me.

Were the project paid for by Saudi Arabia?

This center was built by Saudi Arabia’s NGOs; the same investor who built Kibuli Hospital which specifically serves Uganda’s Muslim population.

Therefore, Saudi Arabia has been quite active in Uganda, has it not?

Projects such as Kibuli College, a teacher training center, and the sugar factory were both completed by Saudi Arabia. While having tours from all of them, the President understood the fact that those projects were built all under my supervision, which helped him know more of me and my activities, and since he sees paramount importance in areas of progress and development, he made suggestions in this regard. From that point on, I began my career as ambassador in Arabic countries, esp. in the Middle East.

You were appointed Uganda’s Ambassador in Saudi Arabia in 1995, right?

Yes, and I served there for 8 years.

Ambassadorial appointments usually take 4 years; were you Uganda’s Ambassador in Saudi Arabia for two terms?

I studied in Saudi Arabia for 13 years, and served for 11 years as the head of the International Organization of Muslims’ Affairs, which is an NGO. After that, I became Uganda’s Ambassador in Saudi Arabia for the following 8 years, but was in charge of the countries of Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Yemen. I made huge efforts to promote the ties between Uganda and the Arabic countries, esp. in the field of economy.

Why did you choose Iran to continue your diplomatic activities?

In 1995-1996, Iran’s embassy in Kampala began to work, and so, Uganda needed to establish one in Iran, too. Iran is the most famous country in the history of Islam, so not every diplomat could work as an ambassador here. One should be totally aware of Islam and its rules and also of the delicacies in the connections between Shia and Sunni, for all these factors shall be fully effective on political relations.

Before your diplomatic activities started in Iran, had you travelled here before?

Before I was appointed ambassador, I had travelled to Iran for a number of times to take part in seminars and conferences.

When was your first trip to Iran?

It was for the conference of the Islamic Countries Cooperation.

How long ago was it?

Goes back to almost 12-13 years ago.

How different do you see Tehran from what it was 12 years ago?

Changes have been fairly extensive. First, I visited Iran only as a tourist, and did not pay much attention to such matters.

I received a Gold Medal from the King of Saudi Arabia in recognition of my efforts to extend relations.

After his trip here, Uganda’s President decided to send an ambassador to Iran. For this position, there were numerous candidates to be assigned. But as the President was well familiar with my experiences and activities, he found me appropriate for the position, and from Riyadh, I flew straight to Tehran, without returning to my country.

Currently, how are your relations with Saudi Arabia’s Ambassador in Tehran?

We have established relations with all the embassies of the Arabic countries, and all ministers of the Middle-Eastern countries are friends of mine. Also, I took part in many occasions with Mr. Zarif, and he proved himself to be a man of his words. Once a very difficult, complicated matter came up at the OIC conference, and he proposed a proper solution.

I am working as Uganda’s Ambassador in Iran for 10 years now.

What are your plans to heighten the ties between Iran and Uganda?

Before we get to this question, let me tell you about the reason why I am in Iran now.

Definitely, as you wish, sir.

The way my policy works construes that I do not hurry in any respect. First, I complete my analyses and studies on the fields of trade, investment and also culture, and afterwards, I start planning for the future. When an ambassador works for only 3 years in a country, he cannot gain a good grasp of the realities. In their first year, they commence knowing the city and the ministries; in their second year, they manage to become aware of only some of the matters, and in their third, they have to head back to their own countries. However, our country does not pursue such a policy.

In fact, I have a scientific vision toward the matters and in this respect, I travelled to all the provinces of Iran, without the Ministry of Foreign Affairs having made any arrangements.

Which provinces have you visited thus far?

I visited all of them, including the cities of Isfahan, Tabriz, Shiraz, Ahvaz, Mazandaran, Kurdistan, Gilan, etc.

I did not go to these cities as ambassador, but I visited them as a tourist, and mostly, governors and private companies hosted me. I used this opportunity to know the companies, esp. the factories and industries. That is why I know all the governors, and even own a factory in Mashhad, and when I travel there, I do not need to stay at a hotel.

Have you travelled to Qum?

Yes, I have, and many Ugandan students now educate in Qum.

When Shia students finish their studies in Qum, they become Ayatollah; but, are the Ugandan Muslims Shia?

This is only a rank given to the Sunni and Shia, and the Sunnis can be Ayatollah, too. Most of the Sunnis, nonetheless, do not know much about the Shias.

Therefore, we can conclude that the Shias and the Sunnis do not know each other well, right?

That is a wrong belief to presume the Shias to be the Sunnis’ enemies. Just recently, a conference was held at Makerere University on Iran’s culture, and I gave a lecture for 20 minutes there about the Shia and the Prophet’s Ahl-e-Bait. In my opinion, those who believe in the Prophet’s Ahl-e-Bait have heartfelt love toward his family. Is that possible to call yourself a Muslim yet not loving the Ahl-e-Bait? For Iranians, explaining the concept of Shia seems troublesome, and the understandings of those who imagine the Shia harms Islam are just wrong.

Based on my trips to different cities in Iran, I can truly tell you that Iran has made considerable developments.

Which province of Iran did seem more interesting to you?

That is a wrong question to ask, for every province has its own qualities. For example, what do you see when you take a trip to Kerman?

Beautiful traditional brick and clay architecture just near the desert.

Let me tell you that; there are many hills and mountains in this city which are spectacular, and cement factories are located in this region. Every province has its own features, of course. Mazandaran, for instance, enjoys a tourism and recreational location; Esfahan is famous for its tile and stone products, and Kashan for its rugs and carpets. In Zanjan, many factories are working, and in Kurdistan, the industry of tractor manufacturing is prosperous.

How long did it take for Your Excellency to gain such information about Iran?

During my 10 years in Iran, I travelled to all the provinces as a tourist and meticulously analyzed the ongoing matters. I am so very much interested in commerce and trade, though. You, Iranians, should be quite satisfied with your achievements and developments, as you have active industries which enjoy a proportional division in all provinces. There are many large and advanced factories in Iran, a majority of which have well lived up to the European standards. Such circumstances create opportunities to further the connections with African countries, as they import their needed commodities from China and Germany.

I had tours at more than 200 pharmaceutical companies which offer their products at a reasonable price and in fine quality. Such Iran-made medicine can contribute to the African people a great deal. Iran has also a great number of specialized doctors.

Now, I need to talk about the cons and negative aspects. The way you make your connections with markets is really a mistake, and so are those of your merchants. For instance, Iranian merchants often come to the embassy with many brochures in their hands to advertise their goods.

Medicine is not like watermelon to sell in the middle of a road trip. That is inappropriate to carry a bagful of medicine to an embassy to sell your goods. Medicine should be prescribed by a doctor. If there be no clinic or drug store in Kampala, who is going to sell them?

So you believe there should be an Iranian drug store in Uganda established to distribute the medicine which come from Iran?

As a matter of fact, I made the same recommendation to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to open a health center in Uganda for the Iranian merchants to sell their medicine.

You can also meet the Minister of Health directly and talk to him about your suggestion.

I have rather well-established connections with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and there, I put forward my recommendation about the opening of a health center in Uganda.

But I recommend that you meet with Iran’s Minister of Health, too.

There have been suggestions in this regard, and we reached certain points, thus far. In fact, this health center has been established in Uganda and aims at introducing Iranian medicine thereto.

When is it exactly going to be officially opened?

In four months. In cooperation with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, we managed to direct the project to the right path.

My other proposal was in the commercial field to build free zones in Uganda for Iranian merchants to be able to offer their products in the region. I met many Iranian merchants at the embassy, and always had one question: how can Ugandan merchants get to know you? and said if they cannot bankroll their trips all on their own, they can go to Uganda along with a group of merchants. We determined a certain piece of land in Uganda as Iran’s free zone in order that every factory can operate in its related field in the region.

There are groups of people in Iran who claim they specialize in holding exhibitions abroad. But they are nothing but frauds and have tricked so many in this way.

Would you please elaborate more on this?

There are some exhibitions which rent their pavilions to Iranian merchants for 4 or 5 days, and the Iranian side should pay the money in advance. But the company which claims to specialize in holding fairs abroad does no advertisement and gives only 1/10 to the Ugandan party, and splurges the rest, which means only 5% of this money is spent in Uganda.

Why doesn’t the private sector hold such exhibitions?

Such exhibitions come with huge expenditures, but these companies make no profit despite the fact that they spend a lot, and receive no order.

After I saw all the weak points, I told the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to establish a free zone for Iranians. This way, Uganda takes only twenty thousand dollars for a whole year instead of for one week of exhibition. That is why I do not encourage the exhibitions to be held, and should the free zone be established, all the problems will definitely fade away.

When is it going to be built?

This project is undergoing its planning phase, but at the moment, two Iranian companies are conducting researches and analyzing the locations for it.

Another issue lies with the Iranian products which are exported to Dubai, but their packing undergoes a totally different appearance, and are later exported Africa with labels on them naming Italy or other countries as the manufacturer. I am doing my best to make a new way to export the products directly to Africa.

Why aren’t the Ugandan merchants active themselves to travel to Tehran with the purpose of importing Iranian products?

Well, no one knows you unless you introduce yourselves.

You can invite the Ugandan merchants as the Ambassador to Tehran for a week or so.

I have done so, and many of them have visited Iran.

When was the last time you held a joint economic commission?

Such meetings have been fruitless, for the Ugandan merchants often compare Iranian products to those of China, India, and other countries. However, I have had cooperation with the Chamber of Commerce in introducing commercial products, and, fortunately, made good progress.

What are the economic potentials to extend financial ties?

Iran is not an industrial country. Therefore, we have to extend agricultural relations, not the industrial ones. Our products enjoy quite a prosperous market in the region.

Uganda produces famous coffee and exports fishery products, precious metals such as gold, diamond, tobacco, iron and steel to Europe.

Yes, it does, and that is because all the products are high-quality and well-made. Should Iran care for them, it can place orders, too.

Uganda owns a liberal economy. The fishery companies are built in Uganda by the European countries or Saudi Arabia, and if Iran tends to, it can work in this field, too.

So, are you saying you invite Iranian merchants to invest in Uganda in the fields of agriculture and fishery?

4500 hectare of lands belonging to the Ugandan government is allocated to Iran in order for it to invest in agriculture.

What is the financial balance between the two countries?

There is not any economic activity now and the sanctions have even made any trade so difficult that the possibility of making a deal is all but slim. The sanctions barred the plans we designed with the government from making any progress. Even our embassy has been facing problems transacting its money from Uganda.

A diplomat’s suitcase can carry money, though.

We can cover our personal expenses, but have commercial problems.

What level are Iran-Uganda relations at? How can they be extended?

They are at an excellent level, and Uganda’s President have travelled to Iran four times.

In 1995, Mr. Rafsanjani, in 2005, Mr. Khatami, and in 2010, Mr. Ahmadinejad visited Uganda, and many agreements were signed on these trips, which can potentially elevate the ties between the two countries.

As a gift, we provided Iran with a tax exemption agreement, called (ODA). This can create foundations for greater, more extended economic relations.

How much is the limit of this tax exemption in dollar?

Nearly $1.5 million which they suggested to be spent on building a health center. But we did not want it, and asked them to build a clinic for us, themselves.

In 2010, Iran contributed $1 million in the form of exporting tractors to Uganda. There are also technological, commercial, industrial, agricultural, educational and cultural agreements signed by both sides.

When are these agreements put into practice?

We are pursuing them at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to implement the plans. We had many talks with Mr. Mohammadi, the deputy for the Africa’s Affairs.

It seems nice to promote the cultural ties, but appears difficult to achieve a high-end goal.

Culture falls into various, countless subcategories, and the question is which culture is to be developed? How much would it cost us to work on promoting ties with Chinese, Indian, English, and Iranian culture?

If we promote the Islamic culture, then, what happens to the Christian, Protestant or Catholic culture? Or the people who have no religion in Uganda? Culture is fine by nature, but does not work on its own, and other activities should follow it.

What are the activities you consider?

Activities such as job creation, establishing educational centers which can bring culture to a touchable surface. But culture is not a priority per se. For instance, in addition to the religious rituals of haj, its financial aspects are also important, for after the rituals are performed, there are financial and purchasing matters coming up later. Therefore, culture is fine when it comes with economy.

In terms of education, should Ugandan students be granted scholarships, that would be swell, and so is if the universities begin sharing their experiences together.

How can Iran’s true image be displayed to the international community?

The real image is so marred from Iran.

Why is it so negative?

Iranians are so hospitable and so friendly toward their friends. For example, once, a friend of mine invited me somewhere when I was on a trip, and, of course, I made the necessary arrangements with the government to attend the gathering as an ambassador, or when I go to Isfahan, I go to my friends’ houses, which is a brilliant cultural orientation. But others do not understand such things and often mistake it for the Arabic culture. They do so, whereas I saw no Arab hosting their guests for such a long while, except for the usual ceremonies. Yet, in Iran, whenever we go somewhere, we feel we’ve gone to our own places, which draws a pretty picture. But abroad, Iran is pictured as a country on the verge of total downfall in which everything is so difficult, the economy is static and makes no progress; yet, this is entirely wrong. When I came to Iran, the city was teeming with old cars, named Peikan, and I, as an ambassador, needed a transportation means. But when I realized the gravity of the situation, I preferred to take taxis; do you see Peikan on the roads now?

No, Peikan is out of production lines now.

Well, that is a progress, then. But no one sees it, because they are not aware of it. There are other constructive, positive achievements. As I said, factories, industries, and pharmaceutical labs have all made satisfactory progress, but who knows about them? In fact, apart from us, who are living in Iran now, no one else knows of such developments. Iran’s government is tasked with improving its media, and, by strengthening the embassies in Iran, showing the true image of itself.

How do you see President Rouhani and his presidency?

In my opinion, he took the office at the right time. He took an acceptable policy which could modify Iran’s image. I believe you witnessed some of his achievements in the past few days. At least, regarding African countries, his measures have been so positive. We had constructive meetings with Mr. Nematzadeh. Actually, the African officials do not come to Iran to seek help, but they come to establish interactions with Iran. Such an image which depicts African countries to be here for begging is false! What is there in Iran that we do not have? We pay for everything, so there is no begging. Even if we are in short of money, we get loans and pay back all the money we owe.

Mr. Rouhani can extend the economic ties with Uganda using the facilities and lands it has specifically determined to allocate to Iran to implement its projects.

Given your 10-year presence in Iran, what is the main difference between Mr. Rouhani and Mr. Ahmadinejad, in your opinion?

There has been a change of atmosphere. Mr. Ahmadinejad was one of my favorite Presidents as he stood on his stances like a real man.

Do you think Mr. Rouhani will succeed in the nuclear negotiations?

Yes, there have been effective measures taken in this regard.

But the sanctions are still on.

Changes happen gradually, as there were some who used to live on the sanctions. So, you see that sanctions cannot be lifted all at once.

Who would have gained profit from such sanctions?

That is not as simple as it seems. Those who imposed the sanctions were almost living off of them themselves.

Would you extend the information on this?

I am here, in Iran, as an Ambassador, and cannot talk about such matters, because they are not in my limit of volition. To know more of such matters, you can have an interview with our Ambassador at the U.N.