“We Were Honored Mr. Rouhani Traveled to Tunisia,” Compliments Tunisia’s Ambassador.

Following the extensive unrests, widespread protests, and later, the killing of dozens of people by the Security Forces in their assaults to the anti-governmental demonstrators in 2011, Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, the then President of Tunisia, fled to Saudi Arabia with his family. Shortly one day after his escape, the Constitution Council of Tunisia ousted him of his Presidency. After the new constitution of Tunisia was agreed upon, hence passed on January, 2014, Tunisians managed to experience their first parliamentary and presidential elections in an open political atmosphere. In this regard, the point of view of Ghazi Ben Salah, Tunisia’s Ambassador in Iran drew so much interest from us that we held an interview to delve deeper into the recent developments of his country.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with Ghazi Ben Salah, Tunisia’s Ambassador in Iran

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

Mr. Ambassador, how did it happen for you to become involved in politics?

I began my diplomatic career in 1983. After four years of work at the Foreign Ministry, I was transferred to Tunisia’s embassy in Moscow, and stayed there for six years. Later, I returned to the Foreign Ministry and continued my work this time in the area of the Asian Subcontinent.

In 1996, just when Belgrade was bombarded, I went to Yugoslavia and served for five years as the second-in-chief at Tunisia’s embassy there. Afterwards, I went back to Tunisia and was appointed in charge of Maghreb at The General Directorate of Political, Economic Affairs and Cooperation with the Arab World and Arab and Islamic Organizations. After 6 years, though, I went to Switzerland as Consul where almost 15 thousand Tunisians live, and that is why Tunisia’s embassy there is pretty active. After my mission was through there, I returned to Tunisia once again and was assigned to deal with the case of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) which is located in Saudi Arabia. Iran’s a member, too. On another leg of my trips, I finally ended up here in Tehran.

Oh, so you have been on a long voyage in your diplomatic life!

Yes, I have. It took me about 30 years, and I spent over 17 outside of Tunisia.

Your appearance shows no aging, nonetheless.

Whoever smiles all the time and is always optimistic will stay young.

Well, I can tell based on my brief familiarity with your wife that she has played an important role in keeping you young.

True indeed. When a family focuses on the well-being and psychological health of the members, it will definitely bring positive effects. I always ask my wife to tell me about cheerful things and not to complain of sad ones.

What diplomatic period of your stint do you believe has been the most difficult?

I witnessed two historically breathtaking incidents; one of them was the final demise of the Soviet Union which proved to be an infinitely difficult experience. Because of my understanding of the Russian language, I was closely touching all that was happening there. I also knew about all the news which was particularly enjoyable for me.

How did you feel when Mr. Boris Yeltsin was lecturing his words while boarding a tank in front of the parliament?

I was the embassy’s second-in-chief and tasked with providing reports. Then, there were five operating tanks outside the embassy, and even when I was talking to my colleagues, I could hear their sounds.

However, my most upsetting memory goes back to when I was in Yugoslavia. There were 90 days of war and bombardments going on from every night’s 9 P.M. to the next. Many targets were wrongly selected and so, it led to the killing of ordinary people. This had really turned into a concern of ours, and because of that, we had to spend our whole day in shelters and stay up all night.

Under such circumstances, you definitely confronted death somehow, didn’t you?

I had sent my family back to Tunisia and stayed alone. In that situation, because the power was out, we had to use candles and at the time of air raids, we had to kill the lights of those candles, too. In a way, we lived in darkness.

How could you deal with the Consulate affairs then? Wasn’t saving your life more important than accomplishing what you had been tasked with?

Just like a soldier, a diplomat is on duty when his place is both at war and peace. We were the soldiers of our own country, too. A diplomat’s job is not designed to take him to a five-star hotel and place a cigarette between his fingers. We have to do our fair share so as to have served our country.

Considering the revolution in Tunisia, what changes has Tunisia’s foreign policy undergone both before and after it?

Just like every revolution, that of Tunisia has definitely affected all parts of the country. It has left its impact on our Ministry of Foreign Affairs as well. We hope now, however, to have our relations with other countries improved under the Ministry of a seasoned diplomat who has served for 20 years at international organizations.

You consider Tunisia’s revolution to be as intense as a nudge, whereas a revolution is followed by sweeping changes.

Throughout the history, Tunisia has gone through a revolution almost every century. In fact, people start revolutions as a result of the cruelty of those in charge. The most famous revolution was Ali Bin Ghadam which occurred before the French came to our country.

Why does a dictator take the power in Tunisia almost every 50 years and makes people start a revolution against him?

Generally speaking, we have to take a look at the procedures and arrangements in all Arab Communities. Wherever a father calls the shots, a despot will rise to rule the country and the people will have to follow his orders with total obedience. Such a process creates nothing but dictators. But in the 21^st century, people have drastically changed in terms of their culture, and there is no such a thing as open braces for callousness. Currently, the African countries have made good progress, and those in the Eastern Europe have taken back lots of freedom which indicates they have become advanced communities. The Arab communities, though, are still way far from that path.

About the revolution in Tunisia, I have to point out the fact that the foundation of such revolution hinges on two principles: effort and dignity of people. Our people were dealing with dire unemployment problems, and, in fact, that ignited the revolution, which later affected our government and parliament and broke out to other countries, as well.

Do you know anything about the sentence of Mr. Bin Ali?

Seriously, I don’t, for he has left Tunisia for Saudi Arabia. The matter of trial, too, has been off.

The news from the Plea Court, though, says that sentences and apprehension verdicts have been issued upon him.

Such sentences are issued from time to time, but do not go into practice really.

Is Tunisia not capable of bringing Mr. Bin Ali back, or it doesn’t want to?

He left and will never come back.

But whoever commits cruelty shall have to be tried, shall he not?

Anyone who commits cruelty will be punished twice; once by God and later by history.

Seems to me that the Tunisian officials are after controlling Mr. Ben Ali’s case, for if the case goes open into proceedings, the names of many Tunisian, and even, non-Tunisian figures will be revealed.

What matters to us the most is that those people have left our country and are not ruling it anymore. At the moment, we seek to know what we have to do for our country. I mean those who have left do not have a role in our works is all.

The court of Tunisia accused one of Mr. Ben Ali’s ministers of financial corruption. Also, the cases of some others are being investigated. Does the Judicial System in Tunisia intend to prevent the corrupt figures from laying hands on Tunisia’s financial and organizational systems?

The Justice Department in Tunisia has independent responsibilities and we are now awaiting its verdicts.

And who elects the head of the Justice Department?

A committee consisted of the judges under whose supervision the Judicial System is run.

What role do the political parties play in Tunisia’s politics? Is the structure of political parties firmly formed in Tunisia?

There are 200 political groups in Tunisia which range from the extremist right-wings to extremist left-wings. All of these big parties play their roles in our policies.

How many parties have seats in the Parliament of Tunisia?

Nearly 10 parties, but the seats mostly belong to the Ennahda Movement.

How long do the terms of Presidency and Speakership normally take in Tunisia?

5 years each.

How are Tunisia’s priorities planned regarding its interaction with the East and the West?

They much rely on the situations. Religion-wise, we tend more to the Islamic countries, and geographically, we are geared toward the African countries and Maghreb. Our policy-makings are built aligned with such priorities.

Why did Libya postpone the meeting of the Arab Maghreb Union aimed at investigating its situation despite the fact that Tunisia is a member?

Presently, Libya’s situation is very cloudy and unclear, and so, we can’t take improper measures which are at odds with its reality.

Is Tunisia’s foreign policy planned to bring national peace and unity to Libya, or to stay aside as an observer?

We have special ties with Libya, for it is a brother country to us. Almost 100 thousand Tunisians live in Libya and our borders are open to each other. Both countries are like a melting pot to the other. That is why we are hoping up for stability to come to Libya just like before.

By “before”, what do you mean exactly?

I certainly mean the time when it was politically, economically and socially stable, and that Tunisia turns to a green, lovely place like it used to be.

How much has the religious atmosphere of Tunisia changed in comparison to the pre-revolution times?

Our Islam is moderate and about 99% of people are Sunni Muslims, of the Maliki School. There are over 5 thousand mosques in Tunisia, the most famous of which is Uqba ibn Nafi. Of other places, I can name the shrine of one of the Prophet’s companions who was his barber, and, of course, the Al-Zaytuna Mosque which is located in Tunis, Tunisia’s capital, and is 13-century old.

Tunisia’s civilization is Islamic. Although it could have been subject to many modifications as it faced many other civilizations, even colonialism could not influence it.

How personal is the concept of religion in Tunisia?

Generally, Tunisians deeply believe in their religion, and it is much of a personal matter to them. That is why no one preaches the other, and because of that, the Takfiri groups could not leave an impact on it. Tunisian people do not welcome anyone who tries to tell them what to do about their religion and give them orders. We are lively, kind people and go easy on our religion.

Considering your explanations, can Tunisia take the lead in fighting the Takfiri groups in Africa?

That is not easy of a task at all. But with the help of God, we will overcome such matters. In Tunisia, generally, there is no conflict, fight or hatred.

Each country, which hosts revolution, tries to spread its revolution to the rest of the region or beyond. Does Tunisia intend so?

No way! As I mentioned earlier, Tunisia’s foreign policy dictates that it doesn’t interfere with the policies of other countries. Just like us; we, too, don’t like anyone to interfere with our interior affairs. Our revolution happened inside our country and belongs to our own people only. We merely export our industry and innovations and that is all.

Given the difference in policies between Iran and Tunisia, how do you plan to ease the relations between the two countries as a diplomat?

These differences are minute, I can say. Iran and Tunisia are two Muslim countries who both participate in Global Forums. There has not been any disagreements in Iran-Tunisia ties, but they also have shared similar viewpoints and comments. We have always supported each other, and I have to say that Iran-Tunisia relations are on an excellent level.

Are there any potentials for any joint cooperation between Iran and Tunisia in Africa?

It depends on the fact that these relations go up to a higher level, for we now have trades of some sorts, but not as high as we can take any extra measure.

What is your approach as a diplomat to work out the technical problems in Iran-Tunisia ties?

These problems will go away automatically once the sanctions are lifted.

But the two countries have a lot in common regarding their cultures which is independent of sanctions.

We took part in Tehran’s International Book Fair for the first time this year, and hope to further our participation in the future. But more important than that, we have the celebration of cultural weeks in Iran and Tunisia coming up in the near future.

Well, let’s get to the commercial trades of Iran and Tunisia. Recently, the chairman of Iran’s Chamber of Commerce visited Tunisia, and an agreement was signed between the two countries. What area do you think will be the most cultivating in the development of the potentials between Iran and Tunisia? What horizons can be drawn in this regard?

I believe we will have rapid developments in the economic ties between the two countries. First because the Tunisian politicians are very fund of them, and second because, in my opinion, the relations between Iran and the west will have a good future.

During the talks between Mr. Shafe’e and Ms. Mavi, the head of UTICA, both sides announced that in the area of crafts, huge projects are in the works. How is the current state of them?

Ms. Mavi is scheduled to travel to Iran as soon as possible, and we are waiting for the formation of the Iranian committees to begin the talks. Why we are waiting for so long is because Iran is returning to the International Community and the sanctions are being lifted gradually, therefore, Iran can open its doors to other countries. With an eye to what has recently been going on, I’m pretty sure that countries such as Germany, the US and even the Persian Gulf countries will soon invest in Iran. Be rest assured that Tunisia will be one of them, too. Such investments will happen in the form of commercial cooperation and both neighboring countries will benefit from them. The embassies, too, are tasked with catalyzing the matter to precipitate the affairs.

Is there any more senior official to travel to Iran?

The Minister of Commerce is to visit Iran next month. Even President Rouhani has invited our President to come here, too.

When will you invite Mr. Rouhani to visit Tunisia?

That will be such an honor for us. We will be much glad should a well-known figure such as Dr. Rouhani visit our country.

How is the current state of tourism between the two countries? Has the number of Iranian tourists in Tunisia increased?

We are expecting double as many tourists as we saw last year, which will be between 3000 to 3500 tourists.

How much does a tour to Tunisia cost an Iranian civilian?

It costs them 500 euros for a plane ticket and another 500 euros for 7-10 days of stay at a 5-star hotel. These calculations cover almost every cost on the trip.

What potentials do you believe exist in Iran for Tunisian tourists?

Tunisians care so much about the cultural, historical values of Iran, its handicrafts such as carpets and gold and tours at its old bazaars. The historic and cultural values are much more important, however, and in Tunisia, people know more of Tabriz and Hamadan rather than other cities.

Have you traveled to Isfahan yet?

Not yet. I am waiting for my daughter to go to Qazvin and the north of Iran together.

In closing, if you want to add anything to the matter of development of Iran-Tunisia ties, I’ll be much pleased to hear it.

I hope for the Iran-Tunisia ties to be better than ever. If we do not join hands as two friend, Muslim countries, I don’t think we can build up a better future. That’s why, as Tunisia’s ambassador, I try my best to extend the relations with Iran.