Ukrainian ambassador, “The US and Russia seek their own interests in Ukraine”

Kyiv has been experiencing violent demonstrations against the government. These protests started when Yanukovych, the Ukrainian president, received the loan from Russia, and reduced its ties with the EU consequently. While the protests are growing in Kyiv, we’ve conversed with Mr. Oleksandr Samarskiy, Ukrainian ambassador to Tehran.

Avadiplomatic’s exclusive interview with Mr. Oleksandr Samarskiy Ukrainian ambassador to Iran

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

Would you like us to start the Interview with Iran-Ukraine bilateral affairs or with your life as a diplomat?

I like both of them, you can ask about both.

 What was your occupation before entering Iran?

Three years before coming to Iran I worked in Vienna, in Europe OSCE

 What was your duty as Europe OSCE security provider?

I was in charge of providing security for the UN and Europe OSCE.This organization was formed by an agreement in 1975 by 55 countries. This organization consists North American, European and some Asian countries. After Vienna I represented this organization in Karabachos, Azerbaijan.

  Were you in fact Ukraine’s representative to Karabachos?

Between 1997 and 1998 and also between 2004 and 2006 I was in Karabachos and between 1998 and 2001 I worked in Vienna as Ukraine’s permanent representative.

 Karabachos is a disputed area between Azerbaijan and Armenia, what exactly was the field of your activities in this area?

Actually the main reason to our presence was the conflict between the two countries.

 That’s what I exactly meant; what was your role in that conflict?

We, as the organization’s representatives were trying to restore peace.

 What was your role in this peace?

I and my colleagues from countries like Poland, Britain, Czech and Croatia were there as inspectors.

We were trying to prepare both sides for negotiation, so we met their leaders. In some cases we also spoke to some people who tended to torture and kill people. Then we transferred our information to the Europe OSCE and they negotiated with both sides based on this information.

 So you had a tense time?

This period was tough but after a while our mission was over, and new representatives substituted us. When I was in Azerbaijan I had to change my living accommodation every month based on regulations, and this was very hard. In fact we went to warzone and negotiated with both sides.

 Were you in warzone?

Of course I didn’t visit the area where people were killed but in 1997 we were sprayed bullets.

 How did you feel when you were under fire?

Once we were under fire and escaped to a hole which was guarded by soldiers. Later on we realized it was a cemetery.

 You were in a cemetery?

In fact that place a mass grave. We found it by accident.

 What have you done since 2001?

I’ve been to different positions in Ukraine’s ministry of foreign affairs.

 What year did you enter Iran?

I came to Iran in 2010.

 To what extent was your perception of Iran different from reality?

It was very different.

 What difference?

We got our information about Iran from foreign news agencies. When I came to Iran I realized that reality is totally different.

 Different in what ways?

Most media has a negative attitude towards Iran and news are distorted about Iran and then are presented to the audience. But since I entered Iran I realized that Iran is on a very high Cultural-industrial level and Iranians are so kind and hospitable. Even Tehran, the capital, in on a satisfying level in security and lifestyle. Tehran is very clean and everything is in order, and has many landmarks and tourist attractions and has a sufficient transportation system.

 Which Iranian provinces have you visited?

I don’t remember the names well enough, but I have been to Shiraz, Yazd, Esfahan, Kashan, Qeshm, Kermanshah, Mazandaran, Gilan and Oromia.

 Which city was more interesting for you?

Yazd.

 What features of Yazd were fascinating for you?

Its historic places and monuments and its suburbs. I also quite liked its architecture. Local and folk life in the city is fascinating.

Iranian architecture is pretty special and distinctive as Iran’s climate is totally different from Ukraine’s. Your ethnic groups are very different from ours. For instance Zoroastrians don’t live in in Ukraine, I visited their fire temples. To see the differences you should know consider the facts that Ukraine has experienced two world wars and under Communism government all its churches were obliterated.

Do you mean that Communist government destroyed your cultural heritage?

Yes.

Based on the cultural capacities that you have observed in Iran, why do you think that the cultural affairs between the two countries have not increased after Ukraine’s revolution?

Based on what documents have you come up with this conclusion?

It is evident that not many Ukrainian tourists have visited Iran. As a matter of fact as the cultural affairs between countries increases, the number of tourists and mutual cultural plans increase as well.

During the last three years that I’ve been in Iran, I can confidently say that we are very active in cultural cooperation with Iran. About tourism also there is an exchange between the two countries. One reason that the number of Iranian tourists to Ukraine has decreased is the inflation in Iran. Because Iranians should buy dollar and then change it to Ukrainian currency which is quite costly.

When I compare today, with three years ago, I see that in the past many Iranians used to travel to Ukraine and many other countries, but nowadays this number has dropped. This year many Iranians preferred to go on domestic trips rather than going abroad.

You are right, but the cost of the trip from Ukraine to Iran will be less.

Yes, travelling to Iranians is less expensive for Ukrainians but there are some obstacles which hinder tourists from travelling to Iran. One of them is the strict security obstacles around Iran.

What do you mean by “strict security obstacles”?

In fact I’m talking about the pressure on other countries due to Iran’s nuclear program, it’s a limiting factor in attracting tourists.

Do you mean that the mentality of Iran has lessened Ukrainians interest in visiting Iran?

Do not generalize, it was my view, next point is Ukrainians mentality of Iran. That is exactly the same story like mine, as they have not visited Iran yet, and they have wrong presuppositions, they are not willing to visit it. And third reason to me is the limitations that Iran put on tourists. The Hijab that is imposed on female tourists for instance, as our people are not used to such clothing codes in our country and in Iran they may get arrested if their clothe is not appropriate while such a mistake is not violating Islamic Republic of Iran’s laws, in fact people don’t know what exactly they are supposed to do. We Ukrainians respect your lifestyle and your religious beliefs.

For example, let start with this question I’m asking you; if I travel to Kish Island with my family, what is there for us? I mean your country is replete with tourist attractions, but if I travel to Kish with my family we can have a great time. But I will never travel to Kish with my family because we have to spend that time separate from each other. I can’t go to seaside with my wife. I think if Iran wants to make progress in tourism it should reduce its laws pressure on American and European tourists.

I recommend that Iran should have some specific rules and regulations for tourists like Saudi Arabia as they took such actions for foreign diplomats in order to motivate them to travel to their country, still their people have their own beliefs and are separate from tourists.

We also need to convince Ukrainian tourists to travel to Iran which is a tough job as your country is not on an equal level with UAE and Turkey.

Economic ties between Iran and Ukraine can be strengthened as Ukraine had developed in steel and aviation industry, even in manufacturing Antonov Aircraft Iran and Ukraine has cooperated. What’s your prognostication about the future of Iran-Ukraine economic relationship?

First of all I should note that our countries do not have close ties and the main obstacles are sanctions against Iran which don’t allow us to transfer money to Iran easily.

Some foreign ambassadors in Iran hope that with sanctions being lifted in the close future they can strengthen their economic ties with Iran, and their commercial sector of their embassies has already started marketing in Iran, does Ukraine want to do the same?

Most European countries applied sanctions while Ukraine has never done that. We have always have carried out our responsibility about the UN members but we will maintain our economic ties with Iran so we expect to be given a more favorable condition compared to other European countries which applied sanctions.

What is your plan to strengthen economic ties between Iran and Ukraine?

We want to hold 5^th meeting of Iran-Ukraine Mutual Economic Commission. In all these meeting are for strengthening economic ties.

This is one of my questions, when will the 5^th meeting be held?

If a problem doesn’t arise, and preparations be made, it will be held on December 21^st and 22^nd.

You are in Iran and you are familiar with Ukraine’s economic capacities. What is your prognostication about any increase in economic ties? In specific, in what areas can Iran and Ukraine cooperate?

I think the best area for cooperation is agriculture, Iran’s agricultural import from Ukraine has been $800 million, this figure decreased in current year though.

 Can you please elaborate more on it?

Our export to Iran includes corn and sunflower oil as Ukraine is highly developed in agricultural industry. Most of our interaction is in this area and in 2013 we exported 14 million tons of grains worldwide.

Another developed industry in Ukraine is machine manufacturing and we export agriculture machine to Iran so we hope that as sanctions are being eased we will be able to cooperate with Iran in space programs and science and nuclear industry as well.

In what area of nuclear industry is Ukraine skillful?

Did you know that approximately 2000 Ukrainian experts were working in Bushehr’s nuclear site?

 I thought that most experts in Bushehr’s nuclear site were Russian.

Right now 800 Ukrainian experts are working there according to the contractor’s contract. In fact the contractors are Russian and they inspect the process and plenty of Russian experts work in the nuclear site as well. You need to note that there are 5 nuclear sites in Ukraine.

So Ukraine is powerful and skillful in nuclear industry.

Of course.

It’s interesting to me that Russia Atom that is supposed to complete the nuclear site in Bushehr uses Ukrainians. Why doesn’t Ukraine sign a contract directly with Iran?

This contract was signed 15 years ago. What contract do you mean?

Iran wants to establish new nuclear and research sites.

Right now I hope that the Geneva Talks between Iran and 5+1 will be fruitful and a success in this talks means that we may be able to sign nuclear contracts between Iran and Ukraine.

What do you see on the horizon of Geneva Talks? Although the Swedish ambassador was optimistic about the talks and Sergey Lavrov recognized Iran’s nuclear right in his trip to Tehran, new sanctions against Iran were imposed. Do you think these acts question their honesty?

This is a fact that Iran has the right to have nuclear energy, I, just like many others who support and encourage the agreement, hope that this agreement continue and have favorable results.

In your opinion, why did the US impose new sanctions on Iran in spite of the agreement?

Ask it from the American ambassador.

What is your analysis as a diplomat?

I’m not in charge of Iran-US relationship.

Don’t you think that it questions the US’ honesty?

First of all we should wait and see if the direct negotiations between Zarif and Kerry will end up in any conclusion. But I don’t think that the new sanction was so strict or serious. And there have been some interactions about it which are promising.

We really hope that this agreement makes progress and would have positive results as many problems will be solved by this agreement.

Don’t you worry about getting under pressure by Americans if you increase your economic relationship with Iran?

There is no need to worry, as we are not the members of the US Cabinet to be obliged to accept and apply sanctions against Iran. Vice versa, this condition makes us more interested in increasing our relationship with Iran. Still these sanctions have an indirect impact, we can’t do financial transactions with Iran easily.

During last few months the US has put Ukraine’s president under pressure to accept the free trade with the EU agreement, that’s why I asked this question.

I don’t believe in it. You need to know that interaction with the US is one of our main concerns and is an approved law in our Constitutions. Certainly the president and the prime minister that they have no option but relationship with the EU. That’s why our leaders decided to postpone signing this agreement.

Why did they postpone it?

Because they realized that they need to do more calculations and get more accurate and precise information about Ukraine’s interest.

What Ukraine does is totally right, but we see Senator McCain in Kyiv while supporting the opposition.

The reason they came was that the agreement was not signed, and the reason why they stayed on the streets was that the police used force against them. Of course the president condemned it and stated that those who responsible for it will be punished because it is not acceptable that violence and force be used against a peaceful disagreement.

Is McCain’s speech not interfering in Ukraine’s domestic affairs?

Ukraine is a member of the Human Rights organization of the UN and according to Declaration of Helsinki the human rights issue is not considered to be among domestic affairs of a country. Based on this contract human rights and democracy are universal matters and are not limited to one country or region. That’s why American politicians and senator McCain had a meeting with Ukraine’s president and expressed their views on the issue.

But Americans support the opposition of a government inside Ukraine.

No one, even our president is not an exception, whoever that violates the human rights and democracy should face the consequences. This violence that was employed is our concern.

Let us suppose that there is a demonstration in the US, will Americans allow a Ukrainian senator to give a speech among demonstrators in Washington?

This is not interference, even when we were in Vienna the US was criticized for its internal disputes. The US even was criticized for doing execution.

Why don’t people realize that if the government sign the free trade with the EU contract so quickly, Ukraine will be afflicted by a huge economic pressure?

This matter is still being analyzed, and the decisions have not yet been made. I recommend you not to believe in the news that media publish and broadcast, as much of them are published by Russians and are not serious.

That’s why Freedom of Human Rights Committee was established by the president’s permission in Russia and this committee criticized Russian media for broadcasting such news.

I hope that Ukrainians and those who are on streets reach a reasonable and positive solution with the president.

My interpretation of what you said is that Russia does not want to lose Ukraine easily and prefers to keep its backyard.

Apparently that’s so. Although some Russian politicians state that they follow what Ukraine’s nation want, they try to make impediments in economic affairs between Ukraine and Russia. For example they did not offered a fixed price for the gas and although we are the closest neighbor of Russia’s we pay the highest price for the gas compared to other countries.

Ukrainians remember that few years ago Russia closed the gas valves to Ukraine, do you think they may do it again?

I don’t think so! When they did it, they made a big risk and their own economic interactions was disturbed.

Can we say that Ukraine is a warzone between Russia and the US?

Precisely. Many countries such as Russia and the US follow their interests in Ukraine, but these two country are also interested in a strategic cooperation with Ukraine and we continue our relationship with both of them based on our interests.

 Do you think you can interact with both of them at a same time?

Why not? Definitely the one who makes decision is Ukraine, its people, not the US or Russia.

But Ukrainians are also divided on this matter, some are Russia’s advocates some are US’.

This is normal. And also it is evident that most people want us to be a member of the EU.

Seemingly there are some people who want to cause tension in Ukraine.

On the European side we have the same story, some of them support this matter but some are conservative like France which prefers not to meddle in. Ukraine is a big country and it is really hard to prognosticate what are pros and cons of Ukraine joining the EU. Making decision about it is hard and that’s why there are disagreements about it and countries who have interest and cooperation in Ukraine’s Agriculture and industry want to meddle in.

Iran and Ukraine are striving to show their cultural, political and economic realities to the world, both of them have water borders and they have many common attitudes in the region, the government has changed in Iran and Mr. Rohani is now Iran’s president, and one of his policies is to have closer ties with our neighbors, in your view, what is a practical step?

First of all I wish Iran and its president success in nuclear talks because it will result in closer ties automatically, what the Iranian negotiating team has shown is that the negotiations will reach a positive result. I hope that the second meeting between Iran-Ukraine leaders will be positive and constructive. During last six years we haven’t had such a meeting with Iran, and I find it quite positive to have it now.

Do you think that after Mr. Ahmadinejad’s administration and now that Mr. Rohani is the president there are more promising horizons for the two countries relationship?

Iranians decide who should be the one in charge of decision making for the country not me. Many Iranians were asked why they were voting, and they answered that they vote to determine their future, and we respect their choice.

As the last question, what should we do to help Ukrainians have a real perception and image of Iran?

5+1 talks success will be the key to many Iranians demands.