“People Seek Peace in Both Iran & the U.S.,” Approves Indonesia’s Ambassador.

Indonesia’s Ambassador in Iran indubitably stands among the most seasoned diplomats of his class who, for the first time, had a chance to serve in Iran. He strongly believes in humans’ will to establish peace which rationalizes his attitude toward the presumption of Iranians, Americans and Indonesians establishing, later maintaining a peaceful, well-grounded relationship.

An Exclusive Interview with Indonesia’s Ambassador, Dian Wirengjurit, by AVA Diplomatic

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

Among most diplomats, esp. those who came to Iran from outside the Middle East, exists an image which draws no distinction between Iran and its neighboring countries, namely Iraq and Afghanistan. Were you on the same belief, too?

As a matter of fact, yes. But this is the most primitive and possibly wrong picture ever other nations hold about Iran. Those who travel to Iran have usually obtained their information about the country out from the social media or network, including magazines, TV and radio which mostly have headquarters in the West and do not offer a true image thereof. However, once they stand on the country’s soil, they totally throw away their previous thoughts, just like I did. When I was told to serve in Iran, I had no idea why my respective government made such a decision. I went under the perception that I was being sent to a war-hit country, for I had worked in the disarmament section before. But, soon as I arrived in here, the mental image I had drawn about Iran underwent sweeping changes driving me to rue all the misunderstandings I let exist in my mind.

In which sections or positions have you served before?

All my previous activities are related to Indonesia’s section at the U.N.

In fact, Indonesia’s section at the U.N. works in different fields such as human rights, but I was only active in disarmament section. After that, I went to Moscow as charge d’affairs to Indonesia’s embassy for a year and a half. Different though it might seem, yet Russia plays a key role in international policy, which also relates to the fields of nuclear and disarmament activities. Right after that, I came to Iran. As you well know, Iran’s nuclear case matters highly here. However, my goals are to expand the bilateral relations between Iran and Indonesia in all aspects.

Based on your numerous experiences in disarmament activities, how do you see the current state of Iran’s nuclear case? Do you find it possible to draw a line between the technical and political areas of this case?

I believe that developing and using peaceful nuclear energy is an equal right for every country. Of course, we, the countries which are developing nuclear technology, are to observe the ins and outs of the N.P.T. Every country has to come quite clean on how its nuclear programs go, and as long as it operates within the legitimate frameworks, its rights should be officially recognized and accepted by all other countries. But, should, by any chance, a country feel the slightest change in the transparency level of another, it might soon become an international concern. The West’s main concern toward Iran’s transparency in its nuclear activities is what has turned it into a challenge thus far. Iran, too, has constantly insisted that its programs are solely peaceful. Also, Iran’s leader did strictly ban the use of nuclear weapon which bodes well as a sign of Iran’s peaceful, transparent nuclear activities. In my opinion, now is the time when the only solution to such a challenge is bilateral flexibility. From its own view, Iran does not find it logical and necessary to stop its nuclear activities as it is most certain that they are totally peaceful. Mutually, the West is persistent in its own approach and that leads to inflexibility which does not contribute to solving the problem. However, considering the positive steps the new government has taken thus far, we can be optimistic about the future of this case to some extent. Iran has expressed its good will and flexibility, and we hope that the West will do the same, too. What we also should note is the gravity of the situation which cannot be simply measured by only chairing a meeting and expressing some bilateral flexibility. It has to take its time on a step-by-step basis through negotiation and words.

So what you say is that some political patterns as in President Rouhani’s phone call with President Obama cannot be fully functional on their own, right?

That phone call made a defining hallmark, really, and was a good starting point, but was not enough by itself. Unfortunately, both sides are making complex mathematical equations out of this issue, while it should not be the concern for either sides to take the initiative. The U.S. can know no limit for its expectations and press Iran under as much pressure as it wants to leave its nuclear activities, and Iran, too, can expect the sanctions to be totally lifted. But, the truth is that pursuing the negotiations and proceeding with them can be the key to this lock. If both parties decide to be the first and not to wait for the other to step forward, the talks can naturally lead to better outcomes. Iran must be flexible to show how peaceful its activities are and mutually, the U.S. must begin lifting the sanctions to their fullest.

Your diplomatic optimism seems to be proceeding you. Inside Iran, some presume that the talks with the U.S. are subject to trust issues. Also, inside the U.S., many conservatives are constantly pushing Obama to impose heavier sanctions on Iran. You have served in the U.S. and are aware of how influential some organizations, such as AIPAC, can be. Then again, can you remain a Pollyanna?

I am on the belief that a diplomat needs to be optimistic; otherwise, none of such political knots will be untied. When the Cold War broke out, who would have thought it would go away through negotiations? Perhaps, back then, everybody held it that only bullets can work. Yet, through time they figured out how pivotal the roles of negotiations could be.

I have it deep in heart that the whole world loves peace; we should see the people aside from their governments; people of Iran, the U.S. and Indonesia tend to have friendly relations with each other. But, war, in itself, is a trade of some sort, and when at it, those who produce weaponry, and, of course, arm smugglers, afterwards, will hunt the most prosperous chances. In addition, the conservatives you referred to as insisting on increasing the sanctions are strongly after harvesting their own crop. If the officials avoid influences from such groups, and adopt a more open viewpoint thereon, then the global peace will automatically come up.

How effective do you find the role of Iranians and Americans in the trust-earning process?

There should always be distinctions drawn between nations and their respective governments’ policies. At the time of the Cold War, the U.S. and Russia were at political odds, but their people had maintained their cultural, athletic and other ties with each other. There might be anti-U.S. protests run in Iran, but that should be put aside from what people really want. Many may be under the impression that Indonesia is heavily influenced by the West. But, we have kept culture and rituals intact against slightest distortions; we are the biggest Muslim country, a modern one, in fact; but away from the West’s influence, while, of course, have good relations with them. That happens only because that is what people ask for.

Let me get to the cultural ties between Iran and Indonesia, shall I? Why is Indonesia, as the world’s biggest Muslim country, not in close contact with Iranian history and culture?

As to partially cover this area, we held a cultural fest in Iran, called “A Thousand Years of Relations between Iran and Indonesia”. We did it to enlighten people, because most of them are unaware of the deep roots between the two countries and only consider the past 64 years to be the source of our relations. Recently, archeologists and anthropologists made a breakthrough and discovered a thousand-year-old tomb in North Sumatra at which was written an epitaph in Persian, which shows that Iran-Indonesia ties date back to more than such mere 64 years of political life. It also shows how influenced was Indonesia by Islam which was introduced to it via Iran in such firm a way that, even now, you can notice tinges of Iranian traditions in those of Indonesia’s, such as coming together on a deceased’s grave on the fourth, seventh and fortieth days after his death.

Given the fact that Islam made its way to Indonesia from Iran, how much this view has caused the Indonesians to believe Iran is a part of the Arab world?

It may have affected their thoughts. The geographic proximities Iran shares with other Arab countries have not been ineffective, either.

So, why are most people Sunni Muslims in Indonesia, whereas Iranians are largely Shia?

You should note that Iran has been just one way through which Islam was introduced to Indonesia. Many Indonesians came from Arab descents, mostly from Yemen many years ago, and later formed Indonesian descents; that is why. Years later, we found out that Islam came to our country from Iran, as well, but covered a more limited population. However, there is no difference between Shia and Sunni, as we all believe in Allah, the One.

How are the two country’s economic ties working out? Is there any broadened horizon to expand these relations after the new government took the office?

In politics, Iran and Indonesia are at their good times. My biggest concern here is to expand economic ties in the areas of investment, tourism and trade. The problem is not with the potentials, though, as both states are highly potential to fulfill each other’s needs.

How much is the trade between Iran and Indonesia?

In 2011, the value was estimated to be $1.8 billion. But, in 2012, just like other countries, it dropped to $1.4 billion.

What does seem to form the major proportion of Indonesia’s import from Iran?

Oil, gas, and chemical fertilizers. And, our exports are caoutchouc, paper, palm oil, tea and coffee.

What about industrial products? Indonesia has a high rate of manufacturing industrial machinery; why do you not prepare a fertile ground to boost the trades in this respect?

The word “sanction” has affected Indonesia’s investors so badly. In fact, the West has managed to mar Iran’s image and incurred fear in our investors’ hearts, which makes my task even more difficult than before. It is getting back to square one, and I have to make them rethink their beliefs about the current Iran; Sanctioning Iran has been continuing for a whole generation long, for almost 30 years.

Nonetheless, the reason why Indonesians are heavily impacted by such false image is because they are mostly graduates of European countries, and so, lean more toward the Western media.

For many years, you have been in the West, as well; but your mind has stayed clear from the Western media.

I am a diplomat; I travel to various countries and am in contact with real people. I see them in person, which means I acquire my information directly from the source, not via a medium which feeds the people with whatever it is tasked with.

What about the government in Indonesia? Their databases are quite complete, and allow them to have petroleum and gas trades with Iran. The Indonesian government can play a quite important role in enlightening against such negative depictions.

True that. But the thing is our investors think of their current activities as sufficient. Establishing a new, direct connection with Iran takes more effort than it seems, which they do not tend to make. Yet again, the government can play a more active role, and so, you have a point there. I, too, am striving to hold meetings between the countries’ top brass and also their private sectors to transfer information and to encourage them to find better development strategies. For instance, during the past few months, there have been meetings between our officials and Iran’s and the private sectors. These people feel a sudden urge to make a facelift in their attitudes and thoughts once they come to Iran, and this will not stay here behind them, of course. They take what they see here back with them and tell the others about them. That can be a positive aspect to rely on, and is a factor for the increasing number of the investors who travel to Iran. Once again, I have to stress that the pressure we are under is not easily overlookable.

That is why I insist that our objective is reflect an unvarnished, positive and real image of Iran. I remember that when Mr. Khatami was in office, numerous economic meetings were held between Iran and Indonesia.

The officials have changed in Indonesia, and so has the government. I do aim to inform them about how different Iran really is from what they imagine. As a matter of fact, I have to get back to the drawing board and begin with the most preliminary subjects. You are not going to believe it, but rumors have it that if one travels to Iran, and receives Iran’s seal on his passport, the Western countries will not grant him a visa anymore. Sometimes, Indonesian merchants come to me and ask for my guarantee for when they travel to Iran, they can still go to the United States!

And about the joint economic commissions not held for the last 4 years and unpaid agreements; I should say what matters the most is the resumption of those activities. These commissions should be chaired once they receive experts’ approvals. This month, on 16 and 17 November, we are having the meeting on the agreement of preferential trade ahead of us, and if any positive result comes out of that, there might be joint economic commissions held by the end of the year. Talks and justifications have paid off so far leading to bringing these investors from Indonesia; their visions are most definitely modified and have pushed them to start taking steps toward development.

Recently, Iranians have been facing problems in receiving visas for Indonesia. Is it happening under pressures from Australia as many Iranians immigrated there through Indonesia?

We have not been under any pressure from Australia; nor have our policies. In all honesty, I should tell you that we are facing countless problems with Iranians who abuse the visa facilities or convenience services they have been granted. Of every 10 Iranians who went to Jakarta, only 5 returned! Those who did were only merchants, tourists or officials who always take their visas right from the embassy. At the moment, around 4000 Iranians are temporarily locked up in detention, and 400 are in jail. We are in close collaboration with the International Immigration Organization.

In co-operation with this organization, Indonesia’s government is working on these cases. Should these happen to be real immigrants, the International Immigration Organization will provide its necessary convenience services for their immigration. You can take a look and see that the number of such cases has strikingly plummeted soon after granting visa was called off, whereas the number of merchants and tourists who take their visas officially from the embassy has risen.

There have been arrangements such as round tickets or hotel reservations for those who wish to travel to Indonesia. Were Iranians interviewed at the airport in Indonesia?

Back then, Iran was number 4 on the list of the countries whose travelers had to be meticulously controlled, and normally so, Iranians were under microscope. But now, considering the modifications the visa laws have undergone, there is no interview taken immediately after their arrival. However, even back then, the interview included some simple, short questions. You need to know that interviews were mostly taken especially when someone was suspected or did not look like a real tourist.

There were some who introduced themselves merchants, but once they were interviewed, it turned out that they know not the smallest chunks of English! Of course, I do not deny that there were domestic individuals who were corrupt at Indonesia’s airports, too, namely abusers. For example, the travelers were asked to write on a form how much money they had on themselves. After those individuals frisked the travelers, and found, say, 2000 dollars, they took it and claimed the travelers carried no money at all, the probability of which has now vanished with the laws modified. If you wish to take a trip to Indonesia now, you will have a safer, more unruffled trip. Since the visa is being directly issued right here at the embassy, we have been occasionally encountering people who are neatly and chicly dressed naming their profession to be business and trade. But, in practice, we see that they do not know English, which means they are not real merchants. Let me give you another example. Sometimes, when some persons come to the embassy, and we try to check their reservations at their destination hotels, they soon leave the place and never come back. In fact, our preconditions are quite simple and easy to follow: only a round ticket and their hotel reservations in their hands, which are nothing to compare with those of some Western countries or even Japan or South Korea.