“We Can Maintain Balance between Iran and Saudi Arabia,” States Pakistan’s Ambassador to Tehran.

In an interview with AVA Diplomatic, Pakistan’s Ambassador in Iran spoke of the economic ties between Iran and Pakistan stressing the will on the part of his respective country to sustainably develop relations with Iran and in doing so, he believes Pakistani officials can maintain balance between Iran and other Arab countries in the Persian Gulf.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with Asif Ali Khan Durrani,

Ambassador of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to Iran

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

What ups and downs have occurred in the relations between Iran and Pakistan during President Rouhani’s first four years?

We are not here to compare the relationship between presidencies. Pakistan and Iran have been brothers and friends irrespective of the government in power, and there is no doubt that President Rouhani’s tenure during the past four years has been quite eventful. The most important deal could be the lifting of UN sanctions and the signing of the JCPOA. We are happy that with the signing of the JCPOA, Iran has re-integrated in international community, especially in terms of the economic relationships which have been revived. This has also helped the bilateral trade between Pakistan and Iran during the past one year, ever since the lifting of sanctions. The trade between Pakistan and Iran has increased since then by 28%. The trade volume has crossed the US $ one-billion mark, and now the trade, as per the statistics issued by the Iranian customs authorities, is US$1.1bn. But our goal is to take it to US$5bn by 2021. This goal has been set by the leaderships of the two countries, I mean President Rouhani and former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Which country enjoys the balance of trade?

Well, balance of the trade has always been in Iran’s favor. At least, as per the statistics of past 20 years, the balance of trade has always remained in Iran’s favor.

Based on what parameters and plans is the one-billion-dollar trade between the two countries bound to reach 5 billion dollars?

Well, the trade is driven by market forces of supply and demand. There are many avenues between the two countries and we hope that very soon, the two countries would enter the Free Trade Agreement (FTA). Once the FTA comes into force, it would open up several avenues which may not be currently available to the traders on both sides.

What measures have been taken by both countries to remove the banking problems between them?

Both the countries signed a Banking and Payment Agreement (PBA) agreement in April this year. Iran’s Central Bank and Pakistan’s State Bank signed this agreement in Tehran. This is the main agreement under which commercial banks are entitled to do normal business. So now we have overcome that difficulty and very soon, we will have normal trade transactions through the banks on both sides.

Do you mean the banking system between the two countries will be connected to each other?

Of course. This is a very big achievement we had in April this year.

Is there any specific plan to increase the activities of border markets between the two countries?

Yes, the work is in progress in this respect also. We are actively working towards the opening of two border points, one is Pishin-Mand and the other is Gabd-Rimdan. So hopefully, soon, these border points will be opened. Well, the border market will be a part of it and we are also working on opening the border markets. One is Pishin-Mand (Pishin is on Iran’s side and Mand is on Pakistan’s side).Similarly, Gabd-Rimdan (Gabd is on the Pakistani side and Rimdan is on the Iranian side). Gabd-Rimdan is closer to Chabahar and Gwadar. I have travelled all along the border and have personally seen these border crossings. I strongly support opening of the border markets at the earliest.

In a statement, you stressed that Pakistan’s frank stance delineates that there is no difference between Persians and Arabs, whereas the problem now in the region does not concern religious or lingual orientations. To be more precise, it is about the huge foreign income brought by the employment of a great number of Pakistanis in the Gulf and regional neighboring countries. Do you deny that Pakistan deems its economic ties to the Arab countries in the region vital?

I did not say Persians. I said Arab and non-Arabs. I am Ajam (non-Arab) also.

But the term “Ajam” (non-Arab) is not a good word in Farsi.

That is why I used it deliberately to repeat that we do not want to be involved in the “Arab and non-Arab” debate. I am talking about the Muslim countries and their unity. So my answer would be that we have a very clear policy: we believe in the unity of the Muslim Ummah.

A large number of Pakistanis work in the Persian Gulf and earn huge foreign incomes and that means Pakistan cannot remain impartial to the regional circumstances.

I think we have the capacity and capability to maintain the balance in the relationship.

35% of Pakistan’s foreign income is made by those who work outside of the country. What will happen to Pakistan’s foreign income if you really put the impartiality you mentioned earlier into effect?

Well, you need not be burdened with this worry; leave it to us. We will continue to maintain this impartiality. That is why I said we have the capability and capacity to maintain the balance, which is being respected by our Arab friends and Iran.

 Pakistan’s former Ambassador to Iran, Javid Hussein in an article in the Nation Newspaper called for a balance in the relations between Iran and Saudi Arabia. What does the term “balance” mean?

I have also been talking about the same balance. So for us this balance means that there is no discrimination. For us, both are our reverend brothers.

Two months ago, the Government of Pakistan officially issued permission to General Raheel Sharif to join the Saudi-led military coalition. Does that carry any specific message to address the Middle Eastern countries?

No, not at all. It means he will be heading the coalition and our interpretation of that coalition is to fight extremism and terrorism.

Qatar’s FM was hopeful that Pakistan is getting closer to his country’s policies. Is that true?

I will not comment on what the Qatari FM said. I am concerned with Iran.

There has been a border challenge between Iran and Pakistan for several years now. Is there any operational solution between the two countries to work this matter out? In the case of Afghanistan, we see Pakistan sets up fence and has been following on this plan. What I am asking is if a security measure can be taken into account to settle this problem.

I don’t think the situation along our border with Iran is serious. There have been some problems; these problems can happen anywhere in the world. We have 912 km-long border with Iran. This border also borders with Afghanistan. The problem is that Afghanistan is the largest narcotics exporter in the world. So these narcotics have created its own war economy. An organized crime is going on in that triangle, which is a challenge for us and also for you.

So do you see narcotics as a major cause for border challenges between Iran and Pakistan?

It is one of the very important factors, which is also feeding extremism and terrorism and other organized crimes. It fetches money for people who are involved in this business. Steps have been taken from our side to curb this crime. I’m sure Iran is also taking steps. We have controlled, to a greater extent, these kind of actions from our side. Even in the past, whenever such an incident had taken place, we have taken the culprits to task. There is not one single case where we have not acted or taken the culprits to task.

But the Mirjaveh incident has not been worked out yet.

Well, that is not entirely in our hands. Investigations are still in progress.

So you are implying that the Iranian authorities have shown negligence in this case.

I’m not saying that. I mean it will take time. The tone of your question (implies) we are the culprits. But that is not the case. I told you earlier that if the people came from our side, those have been taken to task.

One of the topics that can be discussed by the two countries is medical tourism. Iran has got fine potentials in this area. Is there any actual agreement or plan drafted between the two countries in this regard?

Well, Pakistan has a fairly elaborate health system with sub-specialties. We are now one of the leading countries in the treatment of cancer and other diseases. But there is always room for such kind of exchanges, especially along the border areas. It depends on what kind of expertise we are looking for. But I admit that I am not familiar with the expertise Iran has got in terms of tourism, and I also think there is need for introducing Pakistan’s expertise in this area. But I give you one example. We are the leading producer of surgical tools/instruments apart from Germany. So we are interested that Pakistan’s surgical instruments be imported in Iran for use in hospitals. Right now, you are importing these instruments by paying five to ten times more. We are the leading producer of sports goods. So there is plenty of room of collaboration. It is also true for tourism.

Do you have any action plan to ease the comings and goings of civilians and visa issuance?

We follow a liberal visa regime with friendly countries.

Does the Pakistani Embassy in Tehran have any specific plan to make known Pakistan’s scientific, cultural and touristic potentials to others?

Iran has got a 90% rate of literacy. I think Iranians are quite intelligent people and they love traveling abroad. I am sure they also know us and where Pakistan is situated. Iranians are most welcome to visit Pakistan. We know at least half a million of Pakistanis come to Iran every year, particularly for visiting holy shrines. So our Iranian friends are most welcome to visit Pakistan. Our doors are open. You are most welcome.

There is an exhibition in Karachi in November. We have invited all the chambers of commerce and industry in Iran to participate in the exhibition. Last year also, Iranian companies had participated in the exhibition. It is a regular feature with which Iranian chambers and companies are familiar with. We will welcome your participation.

How are the parliamentary relations between Iran and Pakistan?

The Parliaments of the two countries have very good cooperation. Our Speaker of the National Assembly was here in April. Also our Chairman of Senate visited Iran from 4-8 August. He also participated in the swearing-in ceremony of President Rouhani.

Do you foresee the outbreak of a war in the Middle East?

This region is already passing through difficult times. The tensions between states are driven by the non-state actors, and unfortunately, the Muslim countries are the victims. So the biggest challenge is that non-state actors such as the ISIS/Daesh, Al-Qaeda, etc. will be the cause of rift and tensions between the states. Therefore, it is very important that all Muslim states, especially of the region, make conscious efforts not to fall prey to the conspiracies of these non-state actors. As a diplomat, I should not talk about war, because a diplomat’s job is to avert the crisis. And, especially in a situation where we know that non-state actors are active in causing rift among states, it is very important that we don’t play to their fiddle. For me, the challenge is not from the states, but it is from the non-state actors.

When people talk about counterterrorism and whatever cooperation that relates to it, then the news about the collaborations between Iran and Pakistan should come out there, too.

Well, it is out there. The two countries often send out clear messages about their fight against extremism and terrorism.

There is a lot to ask Your Excellency about, esp. regarding the possibility of the US cutting down on or stopping contributions to Pakistan. But I feel you better like to focus on Iran-Pakistan ties and that is why I did not ask those.

I thank you for doing that, because I am the Ambassador in Tehran and my colleague in Washington is in a better position to comment on what the U.S. is going to do. But there are basic parameters when we talk about Pakistan. We are a sovereign country. We maintain our relationships based on equality. We make our own decisions based on the interest of our country, our people and peace; peace inside Pakistan and in the region. These are the core parameters of our policy. Pakistan has been under the U.S. sanctions in the past. But on issues of our sovereignty, we never compromise. We may have some problems, although they are not of our creation as I referred to in my previous interviews also that we never requested the Soviet Union to come to Afghanistan and we never requested the Afghani refugees to come to Pakistan. These are not of our creation. We are not the narcotics-producing country. So these are the things to which we don’t have control. We are in fact affected by these developments. But at the same time when we see there is fire in the neighborhood, we have tried to extinguish it. It has been our endeavor throughout to bring down the tensions in the region whether these tensions are caused by the countries of the region or by external actors, outside the region. We believe that tensions or problems should be resolved according to local conditions. There are certain interferences, but we are responding to that as well.

Now that the interview has almost come to an end, we shall be glad to hear if you want to add anything about the relations between Iran and Pakistan.

Well, Iran and Pakistan are two brotherly countries; they have stood by each other all the time, even during difficult times. And I see no reason that this brotherhood should not grow further. It is comforting that our brotherhood has grown with the passage of time. My endeavor would be to help promote and generate more business between the two countries; more exchanges at the highest level and at people-to-people level. Our endeavor would be that our region should be peaceful. And I wish my Iranian brothers and sisters well. Good luck to them.