“The ISIS Is Created by Takfiri Countries,” Believes Iraq’s Consul General in Mashhad.

After the Ba’ath Party collapsed, Iran and Iraq decided to leave behind the scars the 8-year war had caused and, in addition to enhancing their own economic and political ties, tried to mark a new chapter in their relations with their neighboring states. Harboring various places of rich religious values, Iran and Iraq are deemed by the Shiite to be sacred and respectable lands annually attracting millions of visitors from all over the world. Many Iranians are now making a trip to Iraq’s Consulate in Mashhad to have their visas granted for them to visit the Holy Shrine of Imam Husain in Karbala. Iraqi visitors, too, are visiting their Consulate to make possible their stays in Mashhad to visit the Holy Shrine of Imam Reza. To see through the cultural, economic and tourism developments and also various feasibilities for issuing visas for Iranian citizens, we held an interview with Ibrahim Mustafa Jafar Jamal al-Din, Iraq’s Consul General in Mashhad.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with Ibrahim Mustafa Jafar Jamal al-Din, Iraq’s Consul General in Mashhad

 When did your diplomatic career first begin?

I was born into a religious family, called Jamal al-Din, in Najaf, 1945. My father was a cleric, so he held a PhD in the Arab Literature and was considered to be a religious, knowledgeable man. He was also a famous poet whose poems were all in Arabic, and had taught at a number of universities, including the University of Baghdad.

It was just around 1966-1967 when I graduated from the Law School. Later on, I began working as a lawyer and pursued organizational affairs. In August, 2011, I came to Iran and now, it has been 3 years since I started my stint as the Consul General of the Republic of Iraq in the holy city of Mashhad.

Prior to that, I served for 4 years in Damascus as Iraq’s Consul General, but before that, I had worked as an adviser at the Ministry of Interior. In 2010, I worked as Minister Plenipotentiary and worked as Deputy Chief of Consular Department for one year, which relates to the time posterior to toppling Iraq’s former regime. When the Baath regime was in power, I served as a governor or in other organizational positions all across Iraq.

In the 1980s, I was arrested and detained by the army of Saddam Husain and after they released me, I took my family and immigrated to Syria, but came back to Iraq after Saddam was deposed and resumed my career.

 Did you have any chance to work as a lawyer?

Yeah, but that was rather too short a period and I was more involved in organizational affairs. Since my family opposed the former regime, we had lots of times of conflict with it. So, you see it seemed very much difficult for someone with my thinking to work with such regime. My thoughts were in a different direction from that of the regime and that settles it, I guess.

At the time of the imposed war with Iran, Saddam called it the “Battle of al-Qādisiyyah”. Many Iraqi families back then were at odds with the notion of fighting that war and confronting their Shia brothers.

 One of today’s most important striking issues in the Middle East is developments in Syria. Given that you partly worked in Syria as Iraq’s Consul General, did you see any signs of an erupting current of change which might have led to what we see there now?

Before my diplomatic service there, I lived in Syria for 8 years as a dissident to the then Iraqi regime, which was parallel with the terms of the late Hafiz al-Assad. Although he served 20 years as president, his government brought about one of the best republics among the Arab countries and welfare to his people. Back then, there was no pressure from the government on the people and Mr. Bashar al-Assad walked on the same path as his late father.

As you know, Syria has no other financial resource than tourism. Syria is a country of certain respect and popularity among other Arab states, and the Syrian government helped Lebanon maintain peace and security.

After other Arab countries signed an agreement with Israel, Syria remained the sole country which stayed beside Palestine and its resistance and support continue up to now.

In the past, the relations of Syria with other Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE were pretty much solid and there were lots of investments from these countries there. But later, all these states became allies against Syria and empowered terrorism on that land. Currently, the ISIS is a deal given life to by these takfiri countries, and hadn’t it been for the resistance and power of the Syrian army and nation, they could not have stood on their feet and preserved their integrity.

 Why did Arab and takfiri countries do so?

That conspiracy was designed to target Islamic and, particularly, Arab countries and occurred at the time of Arab Spring.

 Do you believe in Arab Spring?

No, I don’t. There is nothing as Arab Spring. That’s, in fact, an autumn during which all leaves fell. If you look at the conflicts in Libya and the massacre done by the terrorist groups in other countries, you will most definitely realize all these are a plot and have designers of their own. Prior to these incidents, there was the deposition of Iraq’s former regime, Iraq’s invasion by the US, and the religion-oriented sedition instigated between the Shia and Sunni.

 Developments and the ISIS in Iraq are the two topics which are elaborately discussed in Iran. Some believe the approach and behavior of Mr. Nouri el-Maliki and his mismanagement caused the takfiri groups and the Sunnis to unite. How do you see this?

That Mr. Maliki’s mismanagement led to this is not right at all. True that this was sparked off first in Iraq, but the ISIS case goes beyond the borders of a country and a region, and can even grasp to the European countries, to those who created and supported it. That is why after other countries felt the peril, and the UN convened a meeting and took decisive measures to fight the ISIS (which, in my opinion, is not Islamic). Before the UN meeting, Iran had sent its aids to Iraq to fight the ISIS.

 Do you think Iran’s absence in the anti-ISIS coalition shall cause it damage in the future?

That is rather obvious that Iran should have joined it, for it is a great regional and international power and can back meetings as such or even help the UN. But Iran tends to act in accordance with the international law and that is what the US opposes.

Now, the ISIS has almost occupied one third of Iraq’s soil. We should note that the first to fight it beside Iraq was Iran.

According to the words of the Supreme Leader, President and FM of Iran, I gleaned that the US can never remove Iran from the equation and always seeks hand from it to confront the ISIS.

Despite the requests and offers by the US, the Supreme Leader firmly rejected them, for he suspects the very nature of these international meetings and alliances.

 Under the current circumstances, is the independence of Kurdistan not much of a real concern?

Kurdistan is a part of Iraq and shall never be separated.

 But some have been trying to act otherwise.

The Kurdish nation doesn’t want separation from Iraq, for it doesn’t do them any favor. It should, however, be noted that it has been a long-sought dream for them to form their independent government.

 There are video clips from groups and even Sunni clergymen who support the ISIS. What do you think about that?

In all religious offshoots, including Sunni and Shia, there are hardliners. Currently, it is not the Sunnis who advocate the ISIS, but it is the heads of Sunni tribes like Izzat al-Douri who is a veteran Ba’ath commander and operates under Naqshbandi group. Supporters may as well be former commanders of the former Iraqi regime who suffered losses back then. That is why they joined hands with the ISIS but now have understood that this fire will eventually burn them, too, for the ISIS is executing some everyday.

 What are your top priorities as Iraq’s Consul General in Mashhad?

When I first came here, I saw no difference between my hometown and Mashhad. In Iraq, they call Najaf “Mashhad”, too. So you see I left Mashhad for Mashhad. In terms of traditions, rituals, culture, religion and people, Mashhad bears an uncanny resemblance to Najaf. Even the Holy Shrines of Imam Ali and Imam Reza are so alike. This very resemblance made me feel at home. In addition to being a religious city, Mashhad is a tourist-attracting, commercial and industrial place.

There are over 6500 major industrial units in Mashhad. This city annually hosts more than 30 million visitors from everywhere. In the beginning of my terms here, I tried so hard to take firm steps to consolidate the Iran-Iraq ties even more than before. So I held various meetings with the authorities of Mashhad including the governor, the FM Delegate, mayor and others.

During the meetings with industrialists and the Association of Industrial Managers, I tried to strengthen the economic relations between the two countries. We have been successful in this area, and many Iranian investors managed to make hefty investments in Najaf, Baghdad and Basra.

In terms of tourism and visits, I urged both sides to develop their facilities. Last year, in addition to those who regularly travel to Iran from Iraq, some 2 million visitors entered the country as visitors of Imam Reza’s Holy Shrine. The Consulate also enables us to issue visas directly for those who intend to visit Iraq’s holy places, and on the 40^th day of Imam Husain’s death (Arba’een), we issued 300 thousand visas.

  In your previous interviews, you had hoped to see the removal of necessity of visa issuance for Iranian visitors. Is that even possible?

Why not? The only problem here is security. Presently, we see many Iranian and Iraqi visitors visit the two countries despite the existing visa and other organizational issues. If the necessity of issuing visa is lifted, then this rate shall considerably soar up, but not under the current security circumstances. I’m sure they will be troubled by the insecure environment.

The issuance of visa is a process which organizes and controls the situation of visitors and the services they are given. If this process is gone, then appropriate service may be no longer a possibility due to the congestion of applicants.

 How many visas do you speculate to issue for this year’s Arba’een?

This year differs very much from the last and the travelers are exclusively visiting Karbala and Najaf. Moreover, because of some security and pre-emptive measures, the visitors may not be able to visit Kadhimiya. You should know that the Iranian visitors tend less to make this trip in this situation.

We issue individual visas, however. But we mostly recommend that the visitors go along with secure, authentic tours and service providers. Yet we expect the number of applicants to increase as Arba’een draws nearer. Last year, Iranian visitors had to walk along with Iraqi visitors once they crossed the border of Shalamche.

 One of your accomplishments was the invitation of the mayors of Karbala, Baghdad and Kadhimiya to Mashhad which was aimed at enhancing the inter-municipal collaborations. What are your future plans in this respect?

The mayor of Baghdad and his accompanying committee visited Mashhad at the invitation of Mashhad’s mayor, and there were MOUs between the mayors of Mashhad and Kadhimiya on knowledge and experience transfer. The company of Kavosh Pey, an active and experienced enterprise, agreed to educate the staff of Baghdad’s municipality on water and sewage and recycling areas.

 Do you have any plans for cooperation and investments of an Iranian trade committee in Iraq?

Of course. Currently, there are various commodities by Iranian industrialists and manufacturers in the Iraqi market.

Iran shares over 1400 km of borders with Iraq, which means that most of its western provinces are connected to Iraq. The annual amount of Iran-Iraq trades is believed to be $10-12bn.

The Iraqi vice president has announced that the number is intended to rise to $30bn which, even if realized, will leave Turkey on top as Iraq’s 1^st trade partner again.

The method Turks stick to is interesting, for they analyze the needs whenever they go to a place. Given the present situation and that the ISIS has nestled right behind their borders, they import their core materials from Iran and proceed with their work. But Iranians, if I must say, are a bit less diligent and are used to waiting for a bid or an auction to land from the sky from them. I mean they are ready-made users in a way. Anyway, despite all Iraq has been through, Iraq’s trade volume with Turkey stands above that with Iran.

 I hope one day Iran become as decisive, too.

So do I. In fact, there are not many barriers ahead, and there are even encouraging laws in this regard. For those who are interested in investing in Iraq, I should say that Iranians are the closest to us in terms of transportation, geography and connectivity and they have all they need for further transactions. The only difference here lies in the quality.

 Knowledge and science transfer is another area both countries can work together in. what plans do you have for this?

There is an MOU between Iran’s and Iraq’s Ministries of Science. Last year, we could see Iraqi students admitted to universities all across Iran.

The Ferdowsi University of Mashhad is one of those universities where both scholarships and customary education fees are accepted.

A while ago, I visited Ferdowsi University as well as the Jahad Daneshgahi Educational Center and became aware of their progress. Furthermore, after the invitation of the chairman of the University of Imam Reza, I had a tour at that university, too, and was informed about the majors taught thereat.

Last month, Iraq’s Minister of Science visited Mashhad and I talked to him and discussed the details of the mechanisms of these universities. There was an interesting major taught here called “Management of Holy Places” which is incredibly amazing. We don’t have that in Iraq.

The number of Iraqi students in Iran is not few. My own nephews, for instance, have received scholarships to study in Iran. But the division of students is not a customizable process and is in the hands of the Ministry of Science to distribute the students in different cities based on their specialty.

 We are happy to see your relatives here.

There are also other family members of mine who now live in Abadan and Khoramshahr.

 Given all these, we can even conclude you are originally an Iranian!

We are Seyeds and our ancestor is Prophet Mohammad. At the time of pilgrimage, many Seyeds fled to Iran where they formed the core of Shia. Khaza’a is an Arabic family name, but here around Neyshabour, I ran into a village where I heard this family name at the end of some people’s surnames who spoke Arabic. In the past, Saddam sent more than 500 thousand Iraqis on diaspora who he accused of being Iranian including the greatest Arab poet, Mohammad Mehdi Javaheri, who left Iraq with his family.

 Do you have any statistics about the Iraqi immigrants to Iran who left their country during Saddam Husain’s tenure?

Whatever you need to gather your information from is ready and it should be as easy as pie.

 Do you know how many Iraqi citizens live in Mashhad?

Nearly 3500 to 4000. Most of them are Iranian from their mother’s side and Iraqi from their father’s. So, their fathers are partly going to Iraq back and forth or reside here permanently.

 Do they not have any problems going back and forth between the two countries?

Some of those sent on diaspora by Saddam were truly Iranians and got their Iranian ID once they returned. Another group fled to Iran only because they feared the Ba’ath regime. Many of them are now back to Iraq, but many other have stayed. There are also the captives of war who, after their release, took refuge to Iran and did not want to go back to Iraq. They married Iranian woman and now have kids. They mostly belong to the Badr Battalion who stayed here.

 Did you take any measures to obviate their travelling problems?

Those with Iraqi IDs received temporary passports and have no problems in this regard. And those who tend to reside in Iran are also off the hook and Iran has well provided for them.

 Over the recent years, many Iraqi authorities visited Mashhad. Do you have any plans to further the political ties?

I don’t think there is even one Iraqi minister left who has not visited Mashhad. But to sign MOUs, they travel to Tehran and come to Mashhad to visit the Holy Shrine. Even the Minister of Defense, who is Sunni, came to Mashhad along with his committee to visit the Shrine once he signed the agreement with Iran’s Minister of Defense. The last committee visiting Mashhad was that of Mr. Nouri el-Maliki, the then PM.

The vice president, the Minister of Science and the Minister of Youth of Iraq, however, had been here. Apart from these, the Minister of Justice and the Head of the Judiciary visited Mashhad, too, as well as the Minister of Oil who signed an agreement between Iran and Iraq.

 Now that our interview is drawing to a close, we would be glad to hear any other word you like to tell our audience about.

I, for one, would like to thank you for your efforts and the trip you made from Tehran to Mashhad to conduct this interview. I also thank the Consulate in Mashhad. These meetings and interviews are of the essence, for they contribute to the mobilization of thoughts to take actions against misfortunes such as terrorism.