“Iranians Should Leave their Comfort Zone.” Believes Kenyan Ambassador to Iran

The Republic of Kenya is located in the Eastern Africa region. The population is approximately 54 million people according to UN estimates. Its capital city is Nairobi located in the South-central part of the country. This country is bordered by South Sudan to the northwest, Ethiopia to the north, Somalia to the east, Uganda to the west, Tanzania to the south; the Indian Ocean is located to the southeast. Kenya is the largest and most advanced economy in East and Central Africa. Kenya is strategically located and a gateway to East and Central Africa with great regional and international connectivity. With its strategic location that borders the Indian Ocean, Kenya is considered as a strategic production and distribution base for Africa, Europe, the Middle East, South Asia and other Indian Ocean Islands. On the last day of the mission of Kenyan ambassador to Iran, we had an opportunity to conduct an interview with him to discuss the challenges and opportunities in the political and economic relations between the two countries. In the following, you can read the full interview.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with Mr. Joshua Igweta Gatimu,

Ambassador of Republic of Kenya to Iran

What position did you hold before coming to Iran, and in which countries have you served?

Let me start by saying that I joined the government service in 1984. In 1991, I went to my posting in Sudan. I spent 6 years in Sudan. Then I went back to the ministry. In the ministry, I concentrated more on conflicts and resolutions in the region, in Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia, those countries. They are in conflict up to today. So, I spent most of my time in the conflicts and resolutions until rising to director of peace and security in the ministry at the ambassadorial level. Then in 2020, I was appointed as the ambassador to Tehran. In fact, when I came here, there was a problem between Iran and Kenya.

The case was for 2012 when Kenya arrested two Iranians. They were imprisoned accused of terrorist activities. Then our relations were not good. When I came to Iran, I concentrated on resolving this issue. Almost every month, I sent someone to the ministry of the foreign affairs and reminded of the two prisoners. The continued state of these two prisoners impacted our relations. Our relations were not so good. In almost two years, I did too much. Lucky enough by 2022, those Iranians were released.

Then we had the visit of the late Raisi, former president of Iran, to Kenya. Now our relations are good.

Iran’s Former President, the late Ebrahim Raisi, met with Kenya’s President William Samoei Ruto in his visit to Nairobi in July 2023 and emphasized on the development of all-round ties between Iran and Kenya. What agreements have been made in this meeting in regard with the development of economic relations between the two countries?

During the time of the late Mr. Raisi, there have been a lot of efforts to expand the relations between the two countries. In his visit to Kenya, five agreements were made on veterinary medicine, communication, culture, fisheries and professional technology. They were mostly on economic relations.

In the visit of the Former President of Iran, the late Raisi, to Kenya, it was agreed upon the extraterrestrial cultivation of Iran in Kenya. Have there been also any agreements about the size of the farms and the variety of crops to be cultivated?

We are waiting for Iran’s request. We have not received any request yet. We have enough land for agriculture. In Kenya right now, the current government led by the president, are very keen on food security. So, anybody who can come and invest in agriculture, are most welcome. We are waiting for the request from the Iranian government. When such a request comes, it will be considered because we have enough land and Kenya likes to cooperate with Iran. You know, Iran is advanced in agriculture and technology.

There are areas in Kenya where there is no rain. When it rains, we have floods in our county. In the last case, almost 300 people died of the floods. As a result, our food security is in danger. So, the Iranians are most welcome to get even 50 thousand hectares. We have enough land for cultivation. They can also assist us and keep some of the food grown in Kenya for us and take the rest to Iran.

Let me tell you something about agriculture. When I go to the Iranian market to get bananas, I see that bananas come to your country from Ecuador while In Kenya, we produce bananas that are very sweet. Instead of buying bananas from Ecuador, Iranians can come to Kenya and buy bananas or get the land to cultivate bananas or other things like avocados. You see the Kenyan avocados in Iran but I think they are brought to Iran through Türkiye. Meanwhile, Iranians can import avocados directly from Kenya.

You are right. In this way, the cost of imported goods to Iran is reduced.

Yes, the two ports of Bandar Abbas and Mombasa are very close to each other, while Latin American countries are far away from Iran.

Are there any shipping lines between the two countries?

There is a shipping line between Bandar Abbas and Mombasa but there is a problem which I have already explained to the ministry and also to the economic forum. The problem is that when the goods come to Kenya from Iran, there is nothing to carry on the way back from Kenya to Iran. For this reason, I suggest that the Iranians establish a base in Kenya so that when the ships come to Kenya, on their way back to Iran, they can carry products such as tea, coffee, bananas, avocados, mangoes, coconuts and similar items.

After the late Ebrahim Raisi’s visit to Kenya, the foreign minister of Israel visited Nairobi under the title of stopping Iran’s influence in Kenya. What is your analysis of Israel’s measure to prevent the expansion of relations between Iran and Kenya?

Kenya is a sovereign state. We do not need somebody to advise us to choose our friends. I think, as you know, whenever Iran makes a move, Israel always comes to spoil it because they do not want us to know how developed Iran is. The message they spread, for example in western media, is that Iran is in a terrible state, people are dying, people are fighting but they are all lies. I have been here for three years and I have been telling Kenyans how Iran is.

Recently, the Iranian Deputy Minister of ICT was in Nairobi meeting our Minister for Technology and Information. So, we do not need anybody to dictate to us. We are a free state and our relationships with Iran have a long history. I will tell you why.

If you come to our port, the port of Mombasa, alongside the coast, from Mogadishu, Somalia to Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, you find people with Iranian origin living there. So, we have had cultural ties with each other from the past. Even in Mombasa, there is a street called Baloch Street and there is Baloch Museum.

When did the Baloch people go to Kenya?

The migration of Baloch people to East Africa started in the 17^th century. At that time, At that time, Omanis traveled a lot to East Africa, and the Balochs who did business in Oman also traveled to the coast of Africa, Mombasa, Zanzibar and Dar es Salaam, etc. Of course, apart from the Balochs, the Shirazi people also traveled to East Africa for the purpose of trade.

In Kenya, there is a town called Kwale and in Kwale, we have a village named Shiraz Village.

In the past, a Kenyan Consulate was working in Shiraz. Will the consulate resume its activities?

Yes, that’s right. Hopefully one day it will be reopened. Let me tell you something. In Kenya, there is a shopping mall called Village Market. It is owned by two Iranian brothers and is considered the best shopping mall in Kenya.

Considering the fact that Kenya is a member of the Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency, How do you evaluate the process of examining Iran’s nuclear case in this council?

For me, all countries are equal and should be treated equally. That is my simple statement. So, states like Palestine should have their freedom. You know that we were colonized by the British. Through the Mau Mau Uprising we fought for our freedom. It was not given to us. So, we know what it means to be free. That is why Kenya, for example in Africa, is the freest country.

Let me tell you something. If Kenya was able to develop nuclear energy, it would do it because we need the green energy or nuclear power. We would like to produce green energy but we cannot.

Does Kenya have uranium mines?

 No, we don’t. Right now that we are sovereign, we know what we have and the quantities.

Is there now a barter agreement between the two countries?

What the government does is to make the conditions for doing business. I am aware that Kenyans are eager to trade with Iranians. For example Iranian businessmen export bitumen to Kenya and they bring tea and coffee in return. This is something between the businessmen of the two countries.

What is the status of banking relations between the two countries now?

We do not have banking relations yet. We will have the next Joint Commission for Cooperation soon and that issue will be discussed. Even with the absence of such cooperation, Kenyans and Iranians are doing business. As an example, fresh meats come from Kenya on a weekly basis and you can see them in the butcheries.

Considering that there are no banking relations between the two countries, how do Iranian businessmen transfer money?

What I have found about Iranians is that they are everywhere in the globe. So, the money comes to Kenya through different channels, like Dubai. I am in touch with the Kenyan businessmen who supply the meat needed by Iran. They are never complaining. They get their money on time. The money lands in Nairobi. This is what matters in business.

When was the last meeting of the Joint Commission for Economic Cooperation of the two countries and what was its agenda? Has the time of the next Commission been determined?

The last Joint Commission for Economic Cooperation of the two countries was held in 2014. As I told you, for some time things were not that good in the relations between the two countries.

From 2014, we were supposed to hold the next one in 2022 but it was postponed at the request of Iran. We are supposed to hold one in the near future in Nairobi. We are waiting for confirmation. Nairobi has not confirmed it yet but an agreement has been reached on the generality of holding the commission.

What was Kenya’s total foreign trade volume in 2023? Do you have any statistics on the volume of exports and imports between the two countries in the last year?

I do not have the exact figures about our total foreign trade volume but with Iran it is still low and it should be bigger. By the way, even in the current situation, the trade balance is in favor of Iran. The volume of trade between the two countries is about 60 million USD, I think.

Of course, it should be noted that the volume of tea exports to Iran is not as high as before. I hope that in the meetings between the Kenyan officials and their Iranian counterparts, they will encourage them to increase the purchase of tea from our country.

The reason that the import of tea from Kenya has decreased is probably because of Sri Lanka that has started sending tea to Iran so as to pay off its oil debt.

I’ll give you a cup of Kenyan tea and tea from Sri Lanka, you will like the Kenyan tea. The reason is that Kenya is in the tropics. So we have sunshine. The tea in Kenya and the one, for example, grown in Lahijan, Iran, tastes different.

Except tea, what other items does Kenya export to Iran?

I can say coffee. I have seen avocados but I think they go through to Iran Türkiye. I encourage Iranians to come to Kenya. We will show them where to get avocados. We are also the world number two in producing macadamia while, I think that Iran imports macadamia through Thailand.

What measures have been taken by the authorities of the two countries to facilitate the issuance of tourist visas? How many Iranian tourists visited Kenya in the last year?

The numbers of Iranian tourists who visit Kenya are not high but we expect it to increase. The encouragement I did was that in 2021, I tried for Mahan Air to be given the authority to directly fly to Kenya and we gave them the authority. Mahan Air announced that they would start the flights in Nowruz but it did not happen and it did not happen the year after too. The purpose of granting this permit by Kenya was to encourage Iranian people to visit our country.

I discussed this case with the ministry that if they cannot commerce the flight, it should be given to another airline because there are many private airlines in Iran.

Is it a possibility for Iranian citizens to apply for a visa online?

The system we are using now is called Electronic Travel Authorization. You go online, you pay thirty dollars and you get the authority to travel with your photo. To avoid any delay, the approval stands online in Nairobi. Our immigration attaché here, in the case of being late, approves the case. So, the maximum process if there is a delay would not be more than three days.

All the Kenyan visa issuance processes around the world are online. Therefore, wherever you are, you don’t need to come to the Kenyan embassy.

Kenya has 47 provinces and each of these provinces has an industrial park. In addition to these industrial parks, there exists an active industrial free trade zone. Right now, how many free trade zones are Iranian companies operating in?

I don’t have accurate information but I encourage Iranians to take advantage of those free zones.

Have there been any negotiations between the state and the private companies of the two countries over the possibility of exporting agricultural machinery, construction products, petrochemicals, oil and gas from Iran to Kenya?

Regarding the matters you mentioned, negotiations are not ongoing at the government with the government level, but the economic activists themselves know how to do this. In petrochemicals, there are Iranians in Nairobi who are working in the field of bitumen and lubricants.

In fact, the biggest bitumen company in Mombasa is owned by a person with an Iranian origin, I think. In Mombasa, there is also a free trade zone which has been developed by the government. In Lamu city, a new port has been built and I advise the Iranian people to take advantage of the capacities created in Kenya.

Kenya can be a gateway for Iran to cooperate with the countries in East Africa. The question arises, which countries are Kenya’s most important political and business partners in Africa?

First of all, we do business with East African countries which apart from Kenya include Tanzania, Uganda, South Sudan, Somalia, Rwanda, Burundi and Congo. Ethiopia has also applied to join this African community. We also have COMESA which stands for Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa. This community includes countries like Zimbabwe and Zambia from the south to Egypt in the north of the continent. As a result, if you set up a manufactory in Kenya, you can sell your products in almost half of the African continent.

Can Kenya be a gateway for Iran to enter the African market?

Kenya has already been the hub and it is Iran that is late to take advantage of the Kenya’s capacities. Iran should use the opportunity of good relations with Kenya and set up its hub there. In fact, once the Iranian businessmen are there, they have the market. That is why I have been telling the Iranians that they should leave their comfort zone and come to Kenya for new opportunities.

What capacities do the two countries of Iran and Kenya have for cooperation in the fields of sports, medicine and science?

In the fields of sports, there are some Kenyan coaches who can come to Iran to train Iranian athletes. I have been telling the sports people to have more cooperation and sign agreements with Kenyans in this regard. The exchange of coaches and athletes between the two countries can benefit both sides. Iranian athletes can go to Kenya for training and sometimes Kenyan athletes can come to Iran for training. I should also highlight that Kenyans are great runners. I look forward to seeing such cooperation between the two countries.

Another topic is football. Sometimes the national football teams of the two countries play against each other. In 2023, our national team played a friendly match against the Iranian national team in Tehran. We welcome further cooperation in this field.

In technology, Iran has iHiT (Iran House of Innovation and Technology) in Kenya. It is the only one in Africa. So you can see the importance of the relations between the two countries. And the Kenyans are really using that center.

Recently, our president approved 11 Iranian pharmaceutical companies to sell their products in Kenya. That agreement is a big achievement that we can cooperate in pharmaceutical products.

To what extent does the lack of knowledge of Kenya among Iranians hinder the proper understanding of the position of this country in the international scene?

As I said before, Iran should leave its comfort zone and expand the scope of their travel. How many Iranians visit Africa?! I think, until today, you did not even know about the Iranian structure and people living in Kenya. So that perception might not be right.

Kenya has been able to gain its freedom and that is why in Africa we have the most progressive constitution. In Kenya, we have freedom of expression. A Kenyan can stand in front of a very high official and criticize him and nobody would arrest him because he is free to express his opinions.

Also, Kenya hosts one of the three secretariats of the United Nations. You can find people from all nationalities in Kenya. People travel to Kenya for tourism, to work at the United Nations, and for other purposes. This situation is the result of that freedom I mentioned. That is why if you walk the streets of Nairobi, no one will ask you where you come from.

What role does the wildlife of Kenya play in the tourism industry of the country?

Our capital city, Nairobi, is the only capital in the world with a national park. From the hotel, in 20 minutes, you will be in the national park. You see the animals not in the zoo but in their habitat. No other capital in the world is like that.

I want to make my last words. In Kenya we say “Hakuna Matata” that everybody is welcome, there is no problem. “Hakuna Matata” is in Swahili. In Kenya we have two languages, English and Swahili. Swahili is formed out of Farsi, Portuguese, Arabic, and the local dialects in Kenya. Some Farsi words and Swahili words are the same and there are a lot of commonalities.

At the end of the interview, if there is anything left unsaid, feel free to mention.

I thank you. At the end of this interview, I feel it necessary to point out that we do not have any problem with Iran. Currently, the relations between the two countries are in a favorable state and there are appropriate grounds for promoting economic and bilateral cooperation.